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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Everyone has a choice in how they chose to proceed with their indoor FELV cats. I never said I was anti vaccine, I said I personally would not have given Tucker more vaccines if I had known then what I know now. He started having infections after he got them and our world went downhill from there, his immune system was already compromised and I wish I would not have added the extra stress to it. My choice. I said I am very concerned about the rabies vaccine for my tiny, older (inside and/or never out of my sight) dog since she has always had very bad reactions to them and now has a large lump on her side that will not go away, I am looking into my options, and will weigh them very carefully to decide what I feel comfortable with. My choice. Since we now know that there are several people on this list who along with their vets, might not choose to vaccinate their sick or elderly animals, and for obviously concerning reasons, I would hope you are not using the term anti-vaxxers to refer to myself or to them? In the event anyone is interested, I found an integrative vet in Tampa and it is a hike for me but she does not do vaccines all at once, she spaces them out, writes exemptions for pets that have had serious adverse reactions, or have serious illnesses where their heath could be compromised by vaccines, and will do the titer with one T test, for your piece of mind that your pet still has enough antibodies for protection, the test is not recognized as a replacement for the shot at least where I live, but at least it is something for me whether they recognize it or not. It would be nice to have her examine Daizy and talk with me about my options for rabies and see how she feels about giving them again when it is time. She also gives something called Lyssin 30c that she gives at the same time as the rabies vaccine to try to protect against the adverse side effects it can have. When I get a new kitty I will give her the vaccines that I think she needs which will be very few for an inside cat, and I will do it in the safest way it can possibly be done. I will give her the 3 year rabies as required, if she becomes ill for whatever reason and her immune system is compromised, or she has a serious reaction, I will weigh my options carefully again. And I will pray she is not one that develops cancer from it. And I will continue to hope that they discover that they can stretch it beyond 3 years, and that maybe like they discovered with the every year scenario that it wasn’t really necessary. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Felvtalk [mailto:<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Amani Oakley<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 09, 2016 1:13 PM<br><b>To:</b> Margo; <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position. Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we came from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now have under control. The only reason that people can now get away with avoiding vaccines, whether that is in people or in animals, is because they are dependent on the herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about getting German measles if all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t need to worry about vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the neighbourhood dogs and cats are vaccinated.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this. People are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the most effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely indoor, and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk is probably low and are probably okay to decide not to vaccinate regularly, with the important proviso Margo intelligently pointed out that sometimes animals get out despite our best efforts. Margo is also bang on when she cautions about the whiney world we live in where a mother will point to a scratch her precious child got while interacting with your cat and insist on testing to ensure that her coddled child is not going to die from your dirty animal. You’d better believe that in a contest between an animal’s life and a human being who has been “harmed” by contact with the animal – no matter how teensy weensy and inconsequential that harm may appear, or how unlikely it is that the animal is infected – that animal will die. You can hire the best lawyers in the country and pour as money as you’ve got into defending your animal, but it is an entirely lost cause. There isn’t a court in the world who will rule that the life of your cat isn’t worth the peace of mind of the mother and child.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Many vets agree that annual vaccinations are no longer needed, especially with indoor animals, but check with the laws in your area and don’t run afoul of them if you can help it. And don’t take for granted the power of the microorganisms that attack animals and humans. With animals, unfortunately, vaccine manufacturers likely rush a vaccine into production well before it reaches the level of proof and safety we expect in human medicine, and thus, for diseases like FeLV, the vaccine is iffy. However, considering what we all know – how lethal FeLV can be and how little is in the arsenal to fight it – it is not surprising that someone decided a partially or sometimes effective vaccine is better than no vaccine at all, until something better comes along. Same goes with rabies – it is lethal and a terrible and painful way to die and very transmissible. Again, the only reason people are taking chances with rabies now is because of the effectiveness of the rabies vaccine – most of us luckily never have seen an animal infected with rabies. So we get complacent. However, as Margo pointed out, in animal species who are not pet species and thus don’t have a high vaccination rate (like raccoons, foxes and skunks) rabies is still a significant threat. Where our animals may come in contact with skunks, raccoons and foxes, even inadvertently, it is not wise to have unvaccinated dogs and cats, though I agree that annual vaccinations are probably not necessary. As for vets and dog groomers, they may not ask if animals have been vaccinated because it was long the norm and the majority of people had vaccinated animals. With the spread of anti-vaccination messages, I predict this will soon enough become a problem again. (Just remember the measles outbreak in Disneyworld last year or the year before – too many complacent people assuming that measles as no longer a threat.) Just contemplate what the rabies vaccine has managed to accomplish – there are parts of the world that are completely rabies free (like Australia where Johnny Depp recently had his run-in with the Prime Minister over this). This isn’t because rabies just up and disappeared people! It’s because Australia is an island so it has a contained land mass surrounded by water, and no new animals can wander in from a neighbouring country, and with a long and aggressive rabies vaccination program (including putting rabies vaccine laced food out for wild animals as we do in Ontario too), they have managed to eradicate the disease in the entire country. And that’s of course why Australia got so snitty with Johnny Depp who smuggled in his dogs (not that I don’t sympathize).</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Do your own research into the history of the infections brought under control by vaccinations, learn how they work, and don’t listen to anti-vaxxers! I have yet to meet one who had anywhere near the grasp of the body and the immune system as I do (and I no longer work in the health care community), and I can argue circles around their logic and lack of knowledge. I agree that with our animals, I suspect that vets in the past took annual vaccines for granted, and they are probably not needed annually, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Amani</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Felvtalk [<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org">mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Margo<br><b>Sent:</b> June-09-16 6:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br><br>Sorry, I KNOW I'm sounding very PRO vaccine, but I'm not. I've just seen the consequences of not vaccinating. And with rabies, it isn't just that the critter can get sick and die from something preventable. There's still PLENTY of rabies in wildlife, and wildlife is closer to us that ever, especially the most important vectors, being skunks and raccoons. Raccoons often occupy attics. Skunks cn take up residence under porches.<br><br>I worked at an Animal Control facility. Just quickly, animals get out. There are fires, and disasters. Sometimes when an animal has to be caught, a human may be scratched or bitten. Quarantine isn't always an option, and if the anial has injured someone, and that someone requests it, the animal MUST be tested.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">-----Original Message----- <br>From: Ardy Robertson <br>Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:18 AM <br>To: <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a> <br>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv <br><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yes, with the exception of Cally who is vaccinated, my cats are indoor-only except when I carry them outside on walks. The vet said it is possible that a mouse or bat could get inside, but not too likely.</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Felvtalk [<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org">mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rachel Dagner<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">That book I mentioned by Dr. Martin Goldstein mentions all kinds of illnesses that happened to animals coinciding with vaccines. Many vets believe that after a couple of vaccines they are protected for life, Goldstein does something called tittering so he can check the antibodies of his patients to know if they need to have another vaccine. How likely is it that our cats will get rabies? Slim to none and slim is out of town! Sorry about Scotchie. </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">L</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> Horrible. </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Felvtalk [mailto:<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ardy Robertson<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I’m not wild about rabies vaccinations either. My Butterscotch (“Scotchie”) died right after having a rabies vaccination!</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Ardy</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> Felvtalk [<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rachel Dagner<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I have never heard of that, and I have read a lot about it. And if they can’t determine the difference how do they know one is more fatal? What did he say about keeping them healthy? I still think that is the most important thing of all, stop problems before they start. Has anyone’s vet ever advised them against vaccines for a FELV cat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them out, being they have a compromised immune system? </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Felvtalk [mailto:<a href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Realissa Dekraunti<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 07, 2016 4:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" target="_blank">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Felvtalk] different types of Felv</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">I took my cats to a new vet, today. He said that FELV A is less fatal than FELV C. He said there is no way to determine which type of FELV they have. Is it true? I think people on this forum know more than many vets. </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black">Thanks a lot </span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>