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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">How high was Aphrodite's creatinine
level? Peaches' WBC had been scary low 5 days before I took her
in for support over the weekend. Tried clavamox and orbax for
preventive reasons to tide her over the low point, but both made
her feel ill. They gave her enrofloxacin at the university, in
case a kidney infection had taken hold, but no way to know. I
considered a necropsy of at least her kidneys, but opted out for a
couple of reasons: 1) they wouldn't sew her back up, and I would
not be allowed to directly pick up her remains, the cremation
place would have to pick them up. I would have no say in asking
that they treat her remains with respect while doing the
necropsy.; 2) the information would be for me only, not put in a
database anywhere where it could help others or expand the body of
knowledge of outcomes of her very rare multiple myeloma. If it's
not part of an official study, they don't care. That really irks
me. That should be a given, that they would want to find out what
happened. There is very little literature on multiple myeloma in
cats, and its treatments and outcomes. DUH, I wonder why. NOT.
Here they have this perfect opportunity to gain valuable
knowledge, but there's no money attached, so they are done. <br>
<br>
Marsha<br>
<br>
On 11/27/2015 8:09 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Marsha<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At
2 mg a day, a person would need a whole lot of vet pills to
use on themselves. The normal dose for humans is 10 to 12 mg
a day, and athletes use it at way higher levels to enhance
performance. In any event, I would think that a vet could
reassure themselves by just limiting the number of pills
given over to a client to 50 or so at a time unless the vet
knows the client very well, as mine do. Winstrol would
hardly be the only vet medication that could be abused or
sold if someone was of a mind to do that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Zander
was the only FeLV cat I have had, that I knew about anyway.
I wouldn’t be so adamant about the Winstrol if it hadn’t
been for my serial blood testing throughout the time I was
treating Zander, first with other treatments and then with
Winstrol. The Winstrol was absolutely tied to his steady
rise in red cell, haematocrit, platelets, and retic count
and whenever I stopped for a time, his results would tumble.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However,
I have mentioned on a few occasions that I used the Winstrol
on a cat with nasal sarcoma who was 16. Again, I had tried a
number of other medications and treatments for her to keep
her eating and to keep the mucous being profusely produced
by the sarcoma, under control. She underwent radiation
therapy, and the vet who was looking after her at the time
was amazed at how well the Winstrol worked to keep her
eating, and keep the mucous production reduced, and
commented that the cats are often lost because of loss of
appetite, both with this condition and with the radiation
therapy. She lived for 3 more years with the sarcoma.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
used it on a kitten who had come from a feral colony, who
was very very ill – running eyes, nose, incredibly high
temperature, not eating, laboured breathing, swollen belly,
with a number of others from her colony being diagnosed with
FIP and dying. I had her on a number of things for a while,
like antibiotics, prednisolone, fluid therapy, etc. and was
not getting any good response until I added the Winstrol.
Within days, she began to eat, play, her nose and eyes
stopped running, her belly deflated and she was left with
some laboured breathing but nothing else.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
used it on a kitten who had been given to me because he was
considered to have a touch of the “wobbles” – thought to
maybe be some cerebellar hypoplasia. Instead of that, I
noted that his anal sphincter didn’t seem to be working
properly – it was “relaxed” and stool not properly formed
and “falling out” and problems urinating (wrong places, but
also retention and crying when he went into the litter box).
In humans, these symptoms are consistent with cauda equina
syndrome, which is the result of damage to the nerves in the
lower part of the spine. Then my husband and I noticed that
he carried his tail straight out and didn’t seem to be able
to lift it straight up and there was a large bump at the
base of his tail. I took him in to the vet – surprise –
there was nothing they could recommend because the apparent
spinal injury wasn’t significant enough to show on xray. I
put him on Winstrol, and a very short time after that (2-3
weeks) his anal sphincter tightened up and his urinary
control improved. We thought he was over whatever problem
there was but we found that he would occasionally do
something that would seem to reinjure his spine – eg –
trying to jump on the table and missing – and then the
symptoms come back. Another few weeks of Winstrol clears him
right up. We took him in for an MRI and they found a very
very small lesion in the spinal column, exactly where I told
them to look. They are unable to tell right now if the
lesion is potentially cancerous or is the remains of healed
injury, and they have asked us to videotape him the next
time he starts having neurological symptoms (which include
an almost drunken walk at his back end) and to NOT put him
on the Winstrol so they can assess the lesion when it is at
its worst. In the meantime, he is doing just fine. I wonder
what would have happened to this kitten had he landed in
almost anyone else’s house – he peed on our bed about 2
weeks after we got him, and just kept peeing on the bed and
on the couch, etc. All the while, I had the distinct
feeling he didn’t WANT to pee there (crazy, right??! Try
telling the vet that you have the FEELING that the cat
DOESN’T WANT to pee in the wrong place).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
have used Winstrol in a few other situations where a cat
hasn’t been feeling well or eating well, and I have gotten
good responses every time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
didn’t get any response from the use of Winstrol on one of
my cats who seemed to contract some kind of virus from the
vet’s office, and developed kidney failure. Despite being
prepared to dialyse or try paracentesis, she passed away.
Very very recently, I came across an article that described
a newly discovered virus named feline morbillivirus, which
causes tubulointerstitial nephritis in cats, which results
in potentially fatal kidney disease. I think that this is
what happened to my beautiful Aphrodite. She was fine until
I took her to the vet one day for a regular check-up. She
and a second cat I had taken in, both came down with a
flu-like condition, and both seemed to finally recover after
a month (but it was a serious infection, needing fluids,
etc.) when Aphrodite relapsed and her creatinine shot
through the roof. WInstrol didn’t have any effect on her
condition, after everything else was tried and found
ineffective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So,
this is hardly a great number for a scientific assessment,
but by count, I have found it has helped in 6 cats (4 of
whom had no other options at all for treatment), and didn’t
help in 1 cat. Also, because of the close monitoring of the
blood work I did with Zander, there is absolutely no
question in my mind that it boosts red cell, platelet, and
white cell production, in a case of nonregenerative severe
anemia which required blood transfusions to keep him alive.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Amani<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Felvtalk
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org">mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marsha<br>
<b>Sent:</b> November-27-15 7:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to
understand about felv<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Amani, I think you already hit on the
reasons for refusal earlier - the report about potential
liver damage, but probably the bigger reason is that humans
try to get hold of it for themselves to use illicitly.<br>
<br>
What percentage of your cats that got Winstrol were FeLV+,
and how many got it for other conditions?<br>
<br>
It's too late for Peaches (FeLV negative with multiple
myeloma), my little princess angel that passed on Sunday. I
had considered it for her anemia, but the oncologist
suggested waiting until we knew how much she would recover
just from coming off chemo. Otherwise, we wouldn't know
what Winstrol did and what changing her treatment did. But
even though her bone marrow was starting to bounce back a
little, her kidneys went into acute failure, with BUN and
creatinine so high their machine had difficulty giving an
accurate reading, and they sent it to another lab on
campus. She was on fluids and a feeding tube over the
weekend, and they were being cautious, but the fluids still
began to put too much strain on her heart so they had to
stop the fluids. She was such a good girl, they didn't even
have an e-collar on her. Unless they took it off for
visiting purposes...but I think I asked someone, and they
told me she was doing OK without one.<br>
<br>
Marsha<br>
<br>
On 11/27/2015 2:14 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Perhaps
but that wasn’t my experience, and if you go on line, you
find others who find it extremely helpful for chronic
kidney disease cases, just like you mentioned. But Marsha,
if the concern is that the results were “lackluster”, then
what could possibly be the explanation for the pure
REFUSAL to prescribe it? Obviously, it that was all there
was to it, the vet could just say, “Well, I don’t think
you’re going to get too far with this stuff, but it’s up
to you if you want to give it a try”. Given that the
option people often get with FeLV cats is zilch, then why
not mention that it is a possibility, though not a great
one. When I am sitting, balling my eyes out and the vet is
telling me, “so sorry, there is nothing at all that can
help” and “put him down for his own sake – you wouldn’t
want him to suffer”, then I certainly expect that I should
have been told about Winstrol. It’s not like we have a lot
of options with FeLV. None of the options are particularly
great or can be relied on regularly, and most of the
options are way way more expensive than the Winstrol.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Moreover,
I find it hard to believe they got lackluster results. I
have used this stuff now in more hard luck situations than
you would believe, and I would say that in about 80% of
the circumstances, I have had a good to an excellent
result. Sometimes, I get no result.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
find it hard to believe that I just happened to be lucky.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Amani</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Felvtalk [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org">mailto:felvtalk-bounces@felineleukemia.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marsha<br>
<b>Sent:</b> November-27-15 3:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org">felvtalk@felineleukemia.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Felvtalk] Grieving, and need to
understand about felv</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Maybe part of it is because of
lackluster results for the conditions they *were* using it
for. I found 2 "old school" vets in my area that had used
it a couple of decades ago, then kind of forgot it existed
after it got harder to find. One said she forgot about it
because it didn't make that big of an impression on her.
She had used it for anemia in CKD cats, I think.<br>
<br>
Marsha<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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