From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 1 09:08:54 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (JASON VOGT) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 15:08:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... References: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> Hello,? My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only cat, Kitty, was diagnosed with FeLV this past Monday at my Veterinarians.? I am not sure when or how he contracted it.? He was very sick and threw up 4 times in about 4 hours last Saturday morning (a white foam throw up), then stopped eating and had trouble breathing and could not sleep.? Vet. gave him IV fluids (he was dehydrated) and the antibiotic shot (Convenia injection).? He has been doing really well since then though.? He is back to his regular self.?? I have another 11 and 1/2 year old female cat indoor only also.? She has been fine.? No symptoms.? I have a large barn outdoors, and in the past several years I have let other cats and kittens into the house in a separate room (but Kitty likes to go in and smell around after I put the cats/kittens back outside).? He played with one kitten a few months ago, too.?? My Vet. says there is nothing she can do.? I plan on keeping things very clean inside and not stressing him out any.? I plan on going back for another Convenia injection or Amoxicillin drops in the future if necessary.? I am not sure if she wants to prescribe him any other medicines in the future or not??? Any tips for me?? When/how do you think he got it?? How long ago?? Which drugs that the Vet. may give him help the most? Any that are bad for him?? Any holistic or over the counter things I can purchase to boost his immune system or help him?? ?Any Holistic Veterinarians that can help me??? Thank you very much for any help you can give me,? Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Sat Jan 1 15:08:57 2022 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:08:57 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... In-Reply-To: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Jason, if your baby is only ? a year old, he may have been born with it or had it before you took him in. I have written many times on this chatline about my own success with Zander, my baby who had FeLV and we were told there was no hope and to just put him down. What worked for us was Winstrol (Stanozolol), an anabolic steroid ? the ?Ben Johnson steroid?. Unfortunately, because many many athletes use Stanozolol to improve their performance and to heal injuries faster, the scientific community has labeled this steroid as ?evil?, and stupidly ignore it and will not use it on either humans or animals. It used to be regularly given to cats, because cats in particular, really respond well to it. There was a really poorly-researched vet paper years ago, which suggested Winstrol causes liver failure in cats, so vets just abruptly stopped using it. In my case, after trying EVERYTHING including interferon and LCTI. We tried each for 4 to 6 months, while monitoring blood work every week. There was no change or improvement in red cell count, haematocrit, reticulocytes, etc. Here is my original post on this chatline, from 2015, and I have repeated this advice many times over the years. Several people have reported success using ?Zander?s protocol? which I describe below: I had a cat with leukemia as a kitten, and he lived to the age of 7 and died from something else that I don?t believe was related to the leukemia. When the vets told me that they could do nothing for him as a kitten dying with leukemia (and he WAS dying - his red cells were dropping down to nothing and I had given him TWO blood transfusions that weren't holding up his numbers to any great degree) then as a last ditch effort, I tried some Winstrol I had in the cupboard that a previous vet had given to me for another cat. This medication turned him completely around. To monitor his condition, we were performing weekly blood tests on him - CBC, liver function, etc. After being put on the Winstrol, his red cells and white cell counts began to climb very quickly and steadily. It was totally amazing and the vets couldn't believe the lab results either. My beautiful little boy was out of the woods in about six months. We were obsessively checking the pinkness of his ears, gums and pads to check the status of his profound anemia, and to our unbelievable joy, he began to get pink and his lab results just kept getting better. After about a year, I called back the internal medicine veterinarian we had seen, and who had told us there was no hope, and told him of our beautiful cat's recovery. To my surprise - and a little bit of anger - he said that I had gone "old school" and that Winstrol used to be used but then there were rumours of possible liver damage associated with it, and vets stopped prescribing it. This REALLY annoyed me. My cat was dying and no one thought that maybe, just maybe, some treatment - even with a potential side effect - was better than no treatment??? In our experience, on a few occasions the liver enzymes would indeed rise, but would drop back down to normal fairly quickly after a short break from the Winstrol. We monitored our beautiful Zander very closely during and after his initial crisis, and if I thought that maybe he was looking pale again, or if the CBC came back with a significantly dropping red cell count, we would put him back on the Winstrol for a 4 to 6 week period, and it would fix him right up. The Winstrol also really helped to increase his appetite so I could get him to eat when he was so very sick. I used it at a level of 1 mg two times a day when he was really sick, and when he started to recover, I cut it back to 1 mg a day, or even 1/2 mg a day for a maintenance dose. I would often pair it with prednisone as well (5 mg a day) and Doxycycline (50 mg a day). I have looked after a very large number of strays over the years and I have a science and medicine background in science and microbiology and laboratory medicine, so I tested and analyzed the lab results we were getting, using this knowledge. I have since used Winstrol in my cats in a number of other situations where vets have told me there is no hope, and I have to say that it has come through more often than not. I therefore could not understand the reluctance of the veterinary - and medical community for that matter - to consider Winstrol, especially in circumstances where vets are telling pet owners that there are no other options and their kitten or cat will die. I have had to do a fair amount of internet research and spoken to a number of veterinarians about this. I have personally concluded that due to the association of Winstrol with athletic doping scandals, the scientific community as a whole has decided to abandon what might indeed be a promising drug. This saddens me but I simply can see no other explanation. I mean really - does it make sense to hear from vets that the drug MAY cause liver disease, when your animal is dying???? Wouldn't you give that option in those circumstances, and let the pet owner understand the risks??? Personally, I think that the risk of permanent liver damage is not a significant risk. The information I have been able to find - buried so very deeply as to be almost unable to be found on the Internet - points to any change in the liver enzymes as being transitory and not representing any lasting liver damage. That was certainly our experience. Because Zander's condition was so dire, even when his liver enzymes started to go up, I decided to keep him on the Winstrol because I could see that his bone marrow had turned back on again and he was producing red cells (with his reticulocyte level starting to go up from basically a zero level). He was eating and looking better, so I grit my teeth and proceeded with the Winstrol. I suspect that many vets might have abandoned ship at that point, and pulled the Winstrol before it had had an opportunity to really have the desired effect, but my vet was at least good enough to recognize that if this treatment didn't work, my cat was out of luck, and she allowed me to continue on with the Winstrol since Zander was doing better in so many other ways. This was also our experience when I used Winstrol in another very elderly cat who had a large and aggressive sarcoma in her sinus cavity, and again who was not expected to live very long. She lived another 3 years after the diagnosis (she was around 19 when she passed away), and I believe that the Winstrol helped immensely in getting her to keep eating, and to keep the swelling under control. With her, we definitely found that her liver enzymes spiked dramatically with the use of the Winstrol, but settled down immediately with a brief discontinuance of the drug. Zander died at age 7 from cardiomyopathy - nothing to do with his liver. I tortured myself with thoughts that maybe the Winstrol had caused the cardiomyopathy, and for all I know, it did. However, again, I did a fair amount of research and initially, I found references to a link between Winstrol and cardiac damage, but the link was pretty tenuous at best, and seemed to be suspected in athletes who had taken Winstrol at 100 X the recommended dosages for years and years. My guilt has never gone away because of course, you never know, but what I do know is that I would have lost him when he was only a year old. If the Winstrol managed to give me 6 more very good years with my cat, who played and was exceptionally affectionate and showed an extreme happiness with his life, then I would have to say I have no hesitation in doing it again. What I find truly bizarre is that given the death sentence that this disease represents to cats, it should be very simple indeed to (a) have vets try the Winstrol and see what their experience is with it (with the proviso that they shouldn?t pull a cat off the Winstrol just because the liver enzymes start to go up) and (b) why haven?t there been some decent clinical trials with this stuff? The cats are given zero probability of surviving this disease. Even if Winstrol only works sometimes, that is better than the odds we are given for these cats at the moment. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: January 1, 2022 10:09 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Hello, My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only cat, Kitty, was diagnosed with FeLV this past Monday at my Veterinarians. I am not sure when or how he contracted it. He was very sick and threw up 4 times in about 4 hours last Saturday morning (a white foam throw up), then stopped eating and had trouble breathing and could not sleep. Vet. gave him IV fluids (he was dehydrated) and the antibiotic shot (Convenia injection). He has been doing really well since then though. He is back to his regular self. I have another 11 and 1/2 year old female cat indoor only also. She has been fine. No symptoms. I have a large barn outdoors, and in the past several years I have let other cats and kittens into the house in a separate room (but Kitty likes to go in and smell around after I put the cats/kittens back outside). He played with one kitten a few months ago, too. My Vet. says there is nothing she can do. I plan on keeping things very clean inside and not stressing him out any. I plan on going back for another Convenia injection or Amoxicillin drops in the future if necessary. I am not sure if she wants to prescribe him any other medicines in the future or not? Any tips for me? When/how do you think he got it? How long ago? Which drugs that the Vet. may give him help the most? Any that are bad for him? Any holistic or over the counter things I can purchase to boost his immune system or help him? Any Holistic Veterinarians that can help me? Thank you very much for any help you can give me, Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlgegg at windstream.net Sat Jan 1 18:25:24 2022 From: dlgegg at windstream.net (dlgegg at windstream.net) Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 19:25:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... In-Reply-To: <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> References: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Message-ID: <1065473097.75079080.1641083124509.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> RE: Winstrol, leave it up to humans to mess things up, over using drugs. ----- Original Message ----- From: Amani Oakley To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Sent: Sat, 01 Jan 2022 16:08:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Jason, if your baby is only ? a year old, he may have been born with it or had it before you took him in. I have written many times on this chatline about my own success with Zander, my baby who had FeLV and we were told there was no hope and to just put him down. What worked for us was Winstrol (Stanozolol), an anabolic steroid ? the ?Ben Johnson steroid?. Unfortunately, because many many athletes use Stanozolol to improve their performance and to heal injuries faster, the scientific community has labeled this steroid as ?evil?, and stupidly ignore it and will not use it on either humans or animals. It used to be regularly given to cats, because cats in particular, really respond well to it. There was a really poorly-researched vet paper years ago, which suggested Winstrol causes liver failure in cats, so vets just abruptly stopped using it. In my case, after trying EVERYTHING including interferon and LCTI. We tried each for 4 to 6 months, while monitoring blood work every week. There was no change or improvement in red cell count, haematocrit, reticulocytes, etc. Here is my original post on this chatline, from 2015, and I have repeated this advice many times over the years. Several people have reported success using ?Zander?s protocol? which I describe below: I had a cat with leukemia as a kitten, and he lived to the age of 7 and died from something else that I don?t believe was related to the leukemia. When the vets told me that they could do nothing for him as a kitten dying with leukemia (and he WAS dying - his red cells were dropping down to nothing and I had given him TWO blood transfusions that weren't holding up his numbers to any great degree) then as a last ditch effort, I tried some Winstrol I had in the cupboard that a previous vet had given to me for another cat. This medication turned him completely around. To monitor his condition, we were performing weekly blood tests on him - CBC, liver function, etc. After being put on the Winstrol, his red cells and white cell counts began to climb very quickly and steadily. It was totally amazing and the vets couldn't believe the lab results either. My beautiful little boy was out of the woods in about six months. We were obsessively checking the pinkness of his ears, gums and pads to check the status of his profound anemia, and to our unbelievable joy, he began to get pink and his lab results just kept getting better. After about a year, I called back the internal medicine veterinarian we had seen, and who had told us there was no hope, and told him of our beautiful cat's recovery. To my surprise - and a little bit of anger - he said that I had gone "old school" and that Winstrol used to be used but then there were rumours of possible liver damage associated with it, and vets stopped prescribing it. This REALLY annoyed me. My cat was dying and no one thought that maybe, just maybe, some treatment - even with a potential side effect - was better than no treatment??? In our experience, on a few occasions the liver enzymes would indeed rise, but would drop back down to normal fairly quickly after a short break from the Winstrol. We monitored our beautiful Zander very closely during and after his initial crisis, and if I thought that maybe he was looking pale again, or if the CBC came back with a significantly dropping red cell count, we would put him back on the Winstrol for a 4 to 6 week period, and it would fix him right up. The Winstrol also really helped to increase his appetite so I could get him to eat when he was so very sick. I used it at a level of 1 mg two times a day when he was really sick, and when he started to recover, I cut it back to 1 mg a day, or even 1/2 mg a day for a maintenance dose. I would often pair it with prednisone as well (5 mg a day) and Doxycycline (50 mg a day). I have looked after a very large number of strays over the years and I have a science and medicine background in science and microbiology and laboratory medicine, so I tested and analyzed the lab results we were getting, using this knowledge. I have since used Winstrol in my cats in a number of other situations where vets have told me there is no hope, and I have to say that it has come through more often than not. I therefore could not understand the reluctance of the veterinary - and medical community for that matter - to consider Winstrol, especially in circumstances where vets are telling pet owners that there are no other options and their kitten or cat will die. I have had to do a fair amount of internet research and spoken to a number of veterinarians about this. I have personally concluded that due to the association of Winstrol with athletic doping scandals, the scientific community as a whole has decided to abandon what might indeed be a promising drug. This saddens me but I simply can see no other explanation. I mean really - does it make sense to hear from vets that the drug MAY cause liver disease, when your animal is dying???? Wouldn't you give that option in those circumstances, and let the pet owner understand the risks??? Personally, I think that the risk of permanent liver damage is not a significant risk. The information I have been able to find - buried so very deeply as to be almost unable to be found on the Internet - points to any change in the liver enzymes as being transitory and not representing any lasting liver damage. That was certainly our experience. Because Zander's condition was so dire, even when his liver enzymes started to go up, I decided to keep him on the Winstrol because I could see that his bone marrow had turned back on again and he was producing red cells (with his reticulocyte level starting to go up from basically a zero level). He was eating and looking better, so I grit my teeth and proceeded with the Winstrol. I suspect that many vets might have abandoned ship at that point, and pulled the Winstrol before it had had an opportunity to really have the desired effect, but my vet was at least good enough to recognize that if this treatment didn't work, my cat was out of luck, and she allowed me to continue on with the Winstrol since Zander was doing better in so many other ways. This was also our experience when I used Winstrol in another very elderly cat who had a large and aggressive sarcoma in her sinus cavity, and again who was not expected to live very long. She lived another 3 years after the diagnosis (she was around 19 when she passed away), and I believe that the Winstrol helped immensely in getting her to keep eating, and to keep the swelling under control. With her, we definitely found that her liver enzymes spiked dramatically with the use of the Winstrol, but settled down immediately with a brief discontinuance of the drug. Zander died at age 7 from cardiomyopathy - nothing to do with his liver. I tortured myself with thoughts that maybe the Winstrol had caused the cardiomyopathy, and for all I know, it did. However, again, I did a fair amount of research and initially, I found references to a link between Winstrol and cardiac damage, but the link was pretty tenuous at best, and seemed to be suspected in athletes who had taken Winstrol at 100 X the recommended dosages for years and years. My guilt has never gone away because of course, you never know, but what I do know is that I would have lost him when he was only a year old. If the Winstrol managed to give me 6 more very good years with my cat, who played and was exceptionally affectionate and showed an extreme happiness with his life, then I would have to say I have no hesitation in doing it again. What I find truly bizarre is that given the death sentence that this disease represents to cats, it should be very simple indeed to (a) have vets try the Winstrol and see what their experience is with it (with the proviso that they shouldn?t pull a cat off the Winstrol just because the liver enzymes start to go up) and (b) why haven?t there been some decent clinical trials with this stuff? The cats are given zero probability of surviving this disease. Even if Winstrol only works sometimes, that is better than the odds we are given for these cats at the moment. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: January 1, 2022 10:09 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Hello, My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only cat, Kitty, was diagnosed with FeLV this past Monday at my Veterinarians. I am not sure when or how he contracted it. He was very sick and threw up 4 times in about 4 hours last Saturday morning (a white foam throw up), then stopped eating and had trouble breathing and could not sleep. Vet. gave him IV fluids (he was dehydrated) and the antibiotic shot (Convenia injection). He has been doing really well since then though. He is back to his regular self. I have another 11 and 1/2 year old female cat indoor only also. She has been fine. No symptoms. I have a large barn outdoors, and in the past several years I have let other cats and kittens into the house in a separate room (but Kitty likes to go in and smell around after I put the cats/kittens back outside). He played with one kitten a few months ago, too. My Vet. says there is nothing she can do. I plan on keeping things very clean inside and not stressing him out any. I plan on going back for another Convenia injection or Amoxicillin drops in the future if necessary. I am not sure if she wants to prescribe him any other medicines in the future or not? Any tips for me? When/how do you think he got it? How long ago? Which drugs that the Vet. may give him help the most? Any that are bad for him? Any holistic or over the counter things I can purchase to boost his immune system or help him? Any Holistic Veterinarians that can help me? Thank you very much for any help you can give me, Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From merrykatmeows at email.com Sat Jan 1 18:44:03 2022 From: merrykatmeows at email.com (kat) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 01:44:03 +0100 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... In-Reply-To: <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> References: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Sat Jan 1 18:49:59 2022 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 00:49:59 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... In-Reply-To: References: <1922325621.518440.1641049734778.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1922325621.518440.1641049734778@mail.yahoo.com> <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Message-ID: <0fca1f57f6aa43e89fea31aa0fbb36cc@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Oh, thank you. I somehow read it as two cats, one who was 11 and one who is ? a year old. Sorry about that Jason, but I agree with Kat. The Winstrol works no matter the age. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of kat Sent: January 1, 2022 7:44 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Amani, I think Jason said Kitty is 11.5 years old... I agree with you about the Winstrol protocol, no matter what the age. Kat (Mew Jersey) Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2022 at 4:08 PM From: "Amani Oakley" > To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Jason, if your baby is only ? a year old, he may have been born with it or had it before you took him in. I have written many times on this chatline about my own success with Zander, my baby who had FeLV and we were told there was no hope and to just put him down. What worked for us was Winstrol (Stanozolol), an anabolic steroid ? the ?Ben Johnson steroid?. Unfortunately, because many many athletes use Stanozolol to improve their performance and to heal injuries faster, the scientific community has labeled this steroid as ?evil?, and stupidly ignore it and will not use it on either humans or animals. It used to be regularly given to cats, because cats in particular, really respond well to it. There was a really poorly-researched vet paper years ago, which suggested Winstrol causes liver failure in cats, so vets just abruptly stopped using it. In my case, after trying EVERYTHING including interferon and LCTI. We tried each for 4 to 6 months, while monitoring blood work every week. There was no change or improvement in red cell count, haematocrit, reticulocytes, etc. Here is my original post on this chatline, from 2015, and I have repeated this advice many times over the years. Several people have reported success using ?Zander?s protocol? which I describe below: I had a cat with leukemia as a kitten, and he lived to the age of 7 and died from something else that I don?t believe was related to the leukemia. When the vets told me that they could do nothing for him as a kitten dying with leukemia (and he WAS dying - his red cells were dropping down to nothing and I had given him TWO blood transfusions that weren't holding up his numbers to any great degree) then as a last ditch effort, I tried some Winstrol I had in the cupboard that a previous vet had given to me for another cat. This medication turned him completely around. To monitor his condition, we were performing weekly blood tests on him - CBC, liver function, etc. After being put on the Winstrol, his red cells and white cell counts began to climb very quickly and steadily. It was totally amazing and the vets couldn't believe the lab results either. My beautiful little boy was out of the woods in about six months. We were obsessively checking the pinkness of his ears, gums and pads to check the status of his profound anemia, and to our unbelievable joy, he began to get pink and his lab results just kept getting better. After about a year, I called back the internal medicine veterinarian we had seen, and who had told us there was no hope, and told him of our beautiful cat's recovery. To my surprise - and a little bit of anger - he said that I had gone "old school" and that Winstrol used to be used but then there were rumours of possible liver damage associated with it, and vets stopped prescribing it. This REALLY annoyed me. My cat was dying and no one thought that maybe, just maybe, some treatment - even with a potential side effect - was better than no treatment??? In our experience, on a few occasions the liver enzymes would indeed rise, but would drop back down to normal fairly quickly after a short break from the Winstrol. We monitored our beautiful Zander very closely during and after his initial crisis, and if I thought that maybe he was looking pale again, or if the CBC came back with a significantly dropping red cell count, we would put him back on the Winstrol for a 4 to 6 week period, and it would fix him right up. The Winstrol also really helped to increase his appetite so I could get him to eat when he was so very sick. I used it at a level of 1 mg two times a day when he was really sick, and when he started to recover, I cut it back to 1 mg a day, or even 1/2 mg a day for a maintenance dose. I would often pair it with prednisone as well (5 mg a day) and Doxycycline (50 mg a day). I have looked after a very large number of strays over the years and I have a science and medicine background in science and microbiology and laboratory medicine, so I tested and analyzed the lab results we were getting, using this knowledge. I have since used Winstrol in my cats in a number of other situations where vets have told me there is no hope, and I have to say that it has come through more often than not. I therefore could not understand the reluctance of the veterinary - and medical community for that matter - to consider Winstrol, especially in circumstances where vets are telling pet owners that there are no other options and their kitten or cat will die. I have had to do a fair amount of internet research and spoken to a number of veterinarians about this. I have personally concluded that due to the association of Winstrol with athletic doping scandals, the scientific community as a whole has decided to abandon what might indeed be a promising drug. This saddens me but I simply can see no other explanation. I mean really - does it make sense to hear from vets that the drug MAY cause liver disease, when your animal is dying???? Wouldn't you give that option in those circumstances, and let the pet owner understand the risks??? Personally, I think that the risk of permanent liver damage is not a significant risk. The information I have been able to find - buried so very deeply as to be almost unable to be found on the Internet - points to any change in the liver enzymes as being transitory and not representing any lasting liver damage. That was certainly our experience. Because Zander's condition was so dire, even when his liver enzymes started to go up, I decided to keep him on the Winstrol because I could see that his bone marrow had turned back on again and he was producing red cells (with his reticulocyte level starting to go up from basically a zero level). He was eating and looking better, so I grit my teeth and proceeded with the Winstrol. I suspect that many vets might have abandoned ship at that point, and pulled the Winstrol before it had had an opportunity to really have the desired effect, but my vet was at least good enough to recognize that if this treatment didn't work, my cat was out of luck, and she allowed me to continue on with the Winstrol since Zander was doing better in so many other ways. This was also our experience when I used Winstrol in another very elderly cat who had a large and aggressive sarcoma in her sinus cavity, and again who was not expected to live very long. She lived another 3 years after the diagnosis (she was around 19 when she passed away), and I believe that the Winstrol helped immensely in getting her to keep eating, and to keep the swelling under control. With her, we definitely found that her liver enzymes spiked dramatically with the use of the Winstrol, but settled down immediately with a brief discontinuance of the drug. Zander died at age 7 from cardiomyopathy - nothing to do with his liver. I tortured myself with thoughts that maybe the Winstrol had caused the cardiomyopathy, and for all I know, it did. However, again, I did a fair amount of research and initially, I found references to a link between Winstrol and cardiac damage, but the link was pretty tenuous at best, and seemed to be suspected in athletes who had taken Winstrol at 100 X the recommended dosages for years and years. My guilt has never gone away because of course, you never know, but what I do know is that I would have lost him when he was only a year old. If the Winstrol managed to give me 6 more very good years with my cat, who played and was exceptionally affectionate and showed an extreme happiness with his life, then I would have to say I have no hesitation in doing it again. What I find truly bizarre is that given the death sentence that this disease represents to cats, it should be very simple indeed to (a) have vets try the Winstrol and see what their experience is with it (with the proviso that they shouldn?t pull a cat off the Winstrol just because the liver enzymes start to go up) and (b) why haven?t there been some decent clinical trials with this stuff? The cats are given zero probability of surviving this disease. Even if Winstrol only works sometimes, that is better than the odds we are given for these cats at the moment. Amani From: Felvtalk > On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: January 1, 2022 10:09 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV.... Hello, My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only cat, Kitty, was diagnosed with FeLV this past Monday at my Veterinarians. I am not sure when or how he contracted it. He was very sick and threw up 4 times in about 4 hours last Saturday morning (a white foam throw up), then stopped eating and had trouble breathing and could not sleep. Vet. gave him IV fluids (he was dehydrated) and the antibiotic shot (Convenia injection). He has been doing really well since then though. He is back to his regular self. I have another 11 and 1/2 year old female cat indoor only also. She has been fine. No symptoms. I have a large barn outdoors, and in the past several years I have let other cats and kittens into the house in a separate room (but Kitty likes to go in and smell around after I put the cats/kittens back outside). He played with one kitten a few months ago, too. My Vet. says there is nothing she can do. I plan on keeping things very clean inside and not stressing him out any. I plan on going back for another Convenia injection or Amoxicillin drops in the future if necessary. I am not sure if she wants to prescribe him any other medicines in the future or not? Any tips for me? When/how do you think he got it? How long ago? Which drugs that the Vet. may give him help the most? Any that are bad for him? Any holistic or over the counter things I can purchase to boost his immune system or help him? Any Holistic Veterinarians that can help me? Thank you very much for any help you can give me, Jason _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 2 09:26:40 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (JASON VOGT) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... References: <757473990.640373.1641137200273.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani.? You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens.? He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer.? Thank you also Kat.? I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old.? I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old.? It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV.?? I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11).? I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life.? Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age??? The 11.50 female? indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine.? I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old.? She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also.? ? Thank you very much again,? Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Sun Jan 2 14:06:27 2022 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 20:06:27 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... In-Reply-To: <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <757473990.640373.1641137200273.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age? The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. Thank you very much again, Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christiinmiami at yahoo.com Sun Jan 2 15:43:09 2022 From: christiinmiami at yahoo.com (Christi Anna) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 16:43:09 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: what is this? why is this coming to me? how am i here i?m lost my cats are felv Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:06 PM, Amani Oakley wrote: > > ? > No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT > Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > > Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. > > I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age? > > The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. > > Thank you very much again, > > Jason > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Sun Jan 2 15:58:19 2022 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (LORRAINE JOHNSTON) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 16:58:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... In-Reply-To: References: <757473990.640373.1641137200273.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1793385403.566892.1641160699860@connect.xfinity.com> Dear Jason, It might comfort you to know that some cats who contract FeLV late in life can suppress it. This is what appears to have happened to my cousin?s cat. She contracted felv from a bite at about age 12. My cousin had had one felv vaccine administered about a year prior, but forgot to get her booster. Then came the bite, after which she tested positive. But we?ve had her viral load checked annually by a company called Scanelis (Colomiers, France), and they report a very low circulating viral load consistent with her immune system suppressing the virus. This phenomenon has been reported in the scientific literature on felv. If you?d like more details, feel free to contact me privately at johnston1110 at Comcast.net. Cheers, - Lorraine ?The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.? -Theodore Parker > On 01/02/2022 3:06 PM Amani Oakley wrote: > > > > No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. > > > Amani > > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT > Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > > > Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. > > > > I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age? > > > > The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. > > > > Thank you very much again, > > > > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ardyr at centurytel.net Sun Jan 2 18:37:17 2022 From: ardyr at centurytel.net (Ardy Robertson) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 18:37:17 -0600 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... In-Reply-To: <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> References: <757473990.640373.1641137200273.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201d8003a$1291ae30$37b50a90$@centurytel.net> Hello All, May I jump in here and endorse Amani?s ?Zander?s Protocol? treatment too. My beloved Tigger was diagnosed with FELV in 2015 at the age of 5-1/2 years. When I finally was able to get the Winstrol that he needed, it was so late that he did pass away in spite of it, BUT, his bloodwork so dramatically improved after just a short while on the protocol that the lab repeated the test because they didn?t believe the results!! Because of the stigma associated with it (thanks to humans) it was very difficult to get and the vets whispered about it and were reluctant to write the RX. I firmly believe that had I been able to get Winstrol earlier, I would still have Tigger. If I ever have another cat who has it, I will definitely use Zander?s Protocol as quickly as possible. My 3-cat family is healthy right now. If you have trouble getting Winstrol, there is a compounding pharmacy in Arizona that will send it to you via mail ? it?s called Diamondback Drugs and it?s located in Scottsdale, Arizona. I found them extremely helpful and quick to send the medicine. Diamondback Drugs, 7316 East Thomas Road, Scottsdale, Arizona 85251 Telephone: 480 946-2223, Toll Free: 1-866-646-2223, Fax: 480 946-2235, Toll Free Fax: 1-866-646-2235 Email: pharmacist at diamondbackdrugs.com Web Site: http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/ Best wishes!! Ardy Robertson From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:27 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age? The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. Thank you very much again, Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From veery at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 3 08:12:56 2022 From: veery at bellsouth.net (Shelley Theye) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 09:12:56 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... In-Reply-To: <1793385403.566892.1641160699860@connect.xfinity.com> References: <757473990.640373.1641137200273.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <757473990.640373.1641137200273@mail.yahoo.com> <1793385403.566892.1641160699860@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <74FABB52-910F-4275-B5A8-AE150A988659@bellsouth.net> Hi Jason, In our rescue group here in NC, anytime a cat tests positive we always have the vet clinic rerun the test. Occasionally there can be user error, either due to the way the test is run or using the parts of the test incorrectly, the way the kits were stored, temperature-wise or expired, etc. Also, there are IFA and PCR tests that can confirm a positive result. Shelley > On Jan 2, 2022, at 4:58 PM, LORRAINE JOHNSTON wrote: > > Dear Jason, > > It might comfort you to know that some cats who contract FeLV late in life can suppress it. This is what appears to have happened to my cousin?s cat. She contracted felv from a bite at about age 12. My cousin had had one felv vaccine administered about a year prior, but forgot to get her booster. Then came the bite, after which she tested positive. But we?ve had her viral load checked annually by a company called Scanelis (Colomiers, France), and they report a very low circulating viral load consistent with her immune system suppressing the virus. This phenomenon has been reported in the scientific literature on felv. If you?d like more details, feel free to contact me privately at johnston1110 at Comcast.net. > > Cheers, > > - Lorraine > > ?The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.? > -Theodore Parker >> On 01/02/2022 3:06 PM Amani Oakley wrote: >> >> >> No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. >> >> >> >> Amani >> >> >> >> From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT >> Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM >> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org >> Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... >> >> >> >> Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. >> >> >> I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's immune system get much weaker as they age? >> >> >> The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. >> >> >> Thank you very much again, >> >> >> Jason >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Felvtalk mailing list >> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 3 10:39:26 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (JASON VOGT) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 16:39:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.5 year old cat "Kitty" was diagnosed with FeLV... References: <375947780.872393.1641227966086.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <375947780.872393.1641227966086@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you very much for that Lorraine.? Thank you very much also, Ardy.?? Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From korruptakitty at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 14:01:11 2022 From: korruptakitty at gmail.com (Kat Parker) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 12:01:11 -0800 Subject: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 63, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don?t give up! Like the other poster said LTC I works in many cases and Winstrol works for a lot of people. Myself I didn?t use any of those and I was prepared for the worst but now almost 12 years later I have a cat who is not FLV positive anymore. At 8 1/2 years old suddenly she flipped. I don?t know why it?s a miracle but don?t give up. And don?t let any vet tell you to put your kitty down. Fight until the end and hopefully the end will come much much later than you think. Good luck and blessings be on counting to you and yours and your kitty Kat On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 1:09 PM wrote: > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to > felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed > with FeLV.... (Amani Oakley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2022 21:08:57 +0000 > From: Amani Oakley > To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat > was diagnosed with FeLV.... > Message-ID: <08b17163ffa44e33abaadcaf68d1101e at OAKSERVER.oakley.local> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Jason, if your baby is only ? a year old, he may have been born with it or > had it before you took him in. > > I have written many times on this chatline about my own success with > Zander, my baby who had FeLV and we were told there was no hope and to just > put him down. > > What worked for us was Winstrol (Stanozolol), an anabolic steroid ? the > ?Ben Johnson steroid?. Unfortunately, because many many athletes use > Stanozolol to improve their performance and to heal injuries faster, the > scientific community has labeled this steroid as ?evil?, and stupidly > ignore it and will not use it on either humans or animals. It used to be > regularly given to cats, because cats in particular, really respond well to > it. There was a really poorly-researched vet paper years ago, which > suggested Winstrol causes liver failure in cats, so vets just abruptly > stopped using it. In my case, after trying EVERYTHING including interferon > and LCTI. We tried each for 4 to 6 months, while monitoring blood work > every week. There was no change or improvement in red cell count, > haematocrit, reticulocytes, etc. Here is my original post on this chatline, > from 2015, and I have repeated this advice many times over the years. > Several people have reported success using ?Zander?s protocol? which > I describe below: > > > I had a cat with leukemia as a kitten, and he lived to the age of 7 and > died from something else that I don?t believe was related to the leukemia. > When the vets told me that they could do nothing for him as a kitten dying > with leukemia (and he WAS dying - his red cells were dropping down to > nothing and I had given him TWO blood transfusions that weren't holding up > his numbers to any great degree) then as a last ditch effort, I tried some > Winstrol I had in the cupboard that a previous vet had given to me for > another cat. > > > This medication turned him completely around. To monitor his condition, we > were performing weekly blood tests on him - CBC, liver function, etc. After > being put on the Winstrol, his red cells and white cell counts began to > climb very quickly and steadily. It was totally amazing and the vets > couldn't believe the lab results either. My beautiful little boy was out of > the woods in about six months. We were obsessively checking the pinkness of > his ears, gums and pads to check the status of his profound anemia, and to > our unbelievable joy, he began to get pink and his lab results just kept > getting better. After about a year, I called back the internal medicine > veterinarian we had seen, and who had told us there was no hope, and told > him of our beautiful cat's recovery. To my surprise - and a little bit of > anger - he said that I had gone "old school" and that Winstrol used to be > used but then there were rumours of possible liver damage associated with > it, and vets stopped prescribing it. T > his REALLY annoyed me. My cat was dying and no one thought that maybe, > just maybe, some treatment - even with a potential side effect - was better > than no treatment??? In our experience, on a few occasions the liver > enzymes would indeed rise, but would drop back down to normal fairly > quickly after a short break from the Winstrol. We monitored our beautiful > Zander very closely during and after his initial crisis, and if I thought > that maybe he was looking pale again, or if the CBC came back with a > significantly dropping red cell count, we would put him back on the > Winstrol for a 4 to 6 week period, and it would fix him right up. > > The Winstrol also really helped to increase his appetite so I could get > him to eat when he was so very sick. > > I used it at a level of 1 mg two times a day when he was really sick, and > when he started to recover, I cut it back to 1 mg a day, or even 1/2 mg a > day for a maintenance dose. I would often pair it with prednisone as well > (5 mg a day) and Doxycycline (50 mg a day). > > I have looked after a very large number of strays over the years and I > have a science and medicine background in science and microbiology and > laboratory medicine, so I tested and analyzed the lab results we were > getting, using this knowledge. I have since used Winstrol in my cats in a > number of other situations where vets have told me there is no hope, and I > have to say that it has come through more often than not. > > I therefore could not understand the reluctance of the veterinary - and > medical community for that matter - to consider Winstrol, especially in > circumstances where vets are telling pet owners that there are no other > options and their kitten or cat will die. > > I have had to do a fair amount of internet research and spoken to a number > of veterinarians about this. I have personally concluded that due to the > association of Winstrol with athletic doping scandals, the scientific > community as a whole has decided to abandon what might indeed be a > promising drug. This saddens me but I simply can see no other explanation. > I mean really - does it make sense to hear from vets that the drug MAY > cause liver disease, when your animal is dying???? Wouldn't you give that > option in those circumstances, and let the pet owner understand the > risks??? Personally, I think that the risk of permanent liver damage is not > a significant risk. The information I have been able to find - buried so > very deeply as to be almost unable to be found on the Internet - points to > any change in the liver enzymes as being transitory and not representing > any lasting liver damage. That was certainly our experience. Because > Zander's condition was so dire, even when his liver enzymes > started to go up, I decided to keep him on the Winstrol because I could > see that his bone marrow had turned back on again and he was producing red > cells (with his reticulocyte level starting to go up from basically a zero > level). He was eating and looking better, so I grit my teeth and proceeded > with the Winstrol. I suspect that many vets might have abandoned ship at > that point, and pulled the Winstrol before it had had an opportunity to > really have the desired effect, but my vet was at least good enough to > recognize that if this treatment didn't work, my cat was out of luck, and > she allowed me to continue on with the Winstrol since Zander was doing > better in so many other ways. > > This was also our experience when I used Winstrol in another very elderly > cat who had a large and aggressive sarcoma in her sinus cavity, and again > who was not expected to live very long. She lived another 3 years after the > diagnosis (she was around 19 when she passed away), and I believe that the > Winstrol helped immensely in getting her to keep eating, and to keep the > swelling under control. With her, we definitely found that her liver > enzymes spiked dramatically with the use of the Winstrol, but settled down > immediately with a brief discontinuance of the drug. > > Zander died at age 7 from cardiomyopathy - nothing to do with his liver. I > tortured myself with thoughts that maybe the Winstrol had caused the > cardiomyopathy, and for all I know, it did. However, again, I did a fair > amount of research and initially, I found references to a link between > Winstrol and cardiac damage, but the link was pretty tenuous at best, and > seemed to be suspected in athletes who had taken Winstrol at 100 X the > recommended dosages for years and years. My guilt has never gone away > because of course, you never know, but what I do know is that I would have > lost him when he was only a year old. If the Winstrol managed to give me 6 > more very good years with my cat, who played and was exceptionally > affectionate and showed an extreme happiness with his life, then I would > have to say I have no hesitation in doing it again. > > > What I find truly bizarre is that given the death sentence that this > disease represents to cats, it should be very simple indeed to (a) have > vets try the Winstrol and see what their experience is with it (with the > proviso that they shouldn?t pull a cat off the Winstrol just because the > liver enzymes start to go up) and (b) why haven?t there been some decent > clinical trials with this stuff? The cats are given zero probability of > surviving this disease. Even if Winstrol only works sometimes, that is > better than the odds we are given for these cats at the moment. > > > Amani > > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON > VOGT > Sent: January 1, 2022 10:09 AM > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only male cat was > diagnosed with FeLV.... > > Hello, > > My 11 and 1/2 year old indoor only cat, Kitty, was diagnosed with FeLV > this past Monday at my Veterinarians. I am not sure when or how he > contracted it. He was very sick and threw up 4 times in about 4 hours last > Saturday morning (a white foam throw up), then stopped eating and had > trouble breathing and could not sleep. Vet. gave him IV fluids (he was > dehydrated) and the antibiotic shot (Convenia injection). He has been > doing really well since then though. He is back to his regular self. > > I have another 11 and 1/2 year old female cat indoor only also. She has > been fine. No symptoms. I have a large barn outdoors, and in the past > several years I have let other cats and kittens into the house in a > separate room (but Kitty likes to go in and smell around after I put the > cats/kittens back outside). He played with one kitten a few months ago, > too. > > My Vet. says there is nothing she can do. I plan on keeping things very > clean inside and not stressing him out any. I plan on going back for > another Convenia injection or Amoxicillin drops in the future if > necessary. I am not sure if she wants to prescribe him any other medicines > in the future or not? > > Any tips for me? When/how do you think he got it? How long ago? Which > drugs that the Vet. may give him help the most? Any that are bad for him? > Any holistic or over the counter things I can purchase to boost his immune > system or help him? Any Holistic Veterinarians that can help me? > > Thank you very much for any help you can give me, > > Jason > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20220101/f57e74fa/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 63, Issue 2 > *************************************** > -- Support Dirty Little Paws Rescue, PayPal to DirtyLittlePaws at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From korruptakitty at gmail.com Mon Jan 3 14:06:23 2022 From: korruptakitty at gmail.com (Kat Parker) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 12:06:23 -0800 Subject: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason what may have happened to you is your cat could have had feline leukemia and then apparently beat it like a lot of cats do when they?re very young and their immune system overpowers it but sometimes it gets depressed and it stays in the body but it?s not active until when they?re older and something triggers it becomes apparent again. That might be what happened On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 1:43 PM wrote: > Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to > felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... (JASON VOGT) > 2. Re: My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > (Amani Oakley) > 3. Re: My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > (Christi Anna) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 15:26:40 +0000 (UTC) > From: JASON VOGT > To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with > FeLV...... > Message-ID: <757473990.640373.1641137200273 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani.? You obviously have > a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens.? He (Kitty) will > be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer.? Thank you also Kat.? I > remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old.? I am > positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one > year old.? It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV.?? > I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter > as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at > age 11).? I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these > diseases and how Mork died from it late in life.? Does an older cat's > immune system get much weaker as they age??? > The 11.50 female? indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine.? I took > her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old.? She tested > negative for FeLV at one year old also.? ? > Thank you very much again,? > Jason > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20220102/012b3f9b/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 20:06:27 +0000 > From: Amani Oakley > To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with > FeLV...... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. > > Amani > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON > VOGT > Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > > Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously have > a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) will > be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I > remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am > positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one > year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. > > I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter > as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at > age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these > diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's > immune system get much weaker as they age? > > The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I took > her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She tested > negative for FeLV at one year old also. > > Thank you very much again, > > Jason > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20220102/ec4894c9/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2022 16:43:09 -0500 > From: Christi Anna > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with > FeLV...... > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > what is this? > why is this coming to me? how am i here i?m lost my cats are felv > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:06 PM, Amani Oakley > wrote: > > > > ? > > No problem, Jason. Please let us know how things work out. > > > > Amani > > > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON > VOGT > > Sent: January 2, 2022 10:27 AM > > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > > Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11.50 year old cat Kitty diagnosed with FeLV...... > > > > Thank you very much for your detailed response Amani. You obviously > have a lot of experience treating both FeLV+ cats and kittens. He (Kitty) > will be 12 years old this coming Spring or Summer. Thank you also Kat. I > remember taking him (Kitty) in from outside when he was one year old. I am > positive the Vet. did a FeLV test on him then and it was negative at one > year old. It surprised me him (Kitty) being diagnosed this old with FeLV. > > > > I had an 11.50 year old cat (Mork - indoor only who I got from a shelter > as a kitten) who died in 2014 of FIP (also diagnosed with it very late at > age 11). I am not sure how these 2 older cats of mine contracted these > diseases and how Mork died from it late in life. Does an older cat's > immune system get much weaker as they age? > > > > The 11.50 female indoor only cat (Snow White) appears just fine. I > took her in from outside the same time as Kitty at one year old. She > tested negative for FeLV at one year old also. > > > > Thank you very much again, > > > > Jason > > _______________________________________________ > > Felvtalk mailing list > > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20220102/1fe0444d/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5 > *************************************** > -- Support Dirty Little Paws Rescue, PayPal to DirtyLittlePaws at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 3 16:58:21 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2022 16:58:21 -0600 Subject: [Felvtalk] =?utf-8?q?My_11=2E5_year_old_cat=2C_Kitty=2C_was_diag?= =?utf-8?b?bm9zZWQgd2l0aCBGZUxW4oCmLi4=?= Message-ID: <1301470019.865097.1641250712809@yahoo.com> Thank you very much Kat for your encouraging words and incredible story. I am happy for you. Jason Sent from Mail for Windows -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 26 14:02:53 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (JASON VOGT) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2022 20:02:53 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV...update... References: <1851705779.1959527.1643227373681.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1851705779.1959527.1643227373681@mail.yahoo.com> Hello everyone,? This morning I took Kitty to my Veterinarian because he was not eating and looked like panting breathing beginning to start again, too.? Exactly one month ago, my Veterinarian gave him IV fluids and a shot of Convenia (the injectable antibiotic).? He did very well for the last 30 days.? Eating, drinking, playing, sleeping - he seemed like his old self again.? I am happy about that.? ?I think twice this week though, in the morning just when I got out of bed, I heard him moaning in pain.? I just know figured out that was the noise he was making (a moaning sound because he was in pain).? I noticed a small sore on his nose also.? The Veterinarian talked to me about prednisone.? She gave him more SubQ (IV) fluids, another shot of Convenia, and Depomedrol 20mg (20cc shot I think).? He weighs around 10.5 pounds. I just did some internet research on Depomedrol and it seems just about the same as Prednisone (possibly a different form of it).? It said it is an anti inflamatory and also a drug for leukemia, cancer, arthritis, etc.?? He is home now.? He ate some kibble when he got home and is taking a nap now.?? Comments and suggestions welcome again,? Thank you very much,? Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 27 09:13:11 2022 From: jason.vogt1 at yahoo.com (JASON VOGT) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 15:13:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV...update.. References: <1045254586.2186407.1643296391484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1045254586.2186407.1643296391484@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you very much for that explanation.? I am trying to keep him happy and not stress him.? He still likes to play. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Fri Jan 28 19:18:10 2022 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 01:18:10 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV...update... In-Reply-To: <1851705779.1959527.1643227373681@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1851705779.1959527.1643227373681.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1851705779.1959527.1643227373681@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <25f7a8cbf5ad463ca9948ffcbe0c3f9d@OAKSERVER.oakley.local> Jason, With leukemia, you want to keep an eye on the haematology levels. If the red cell count/haemoglobin/haematocrit levels remain okay, then staying on whatever you are currently using is okay. But keep a close watch. If those levels start to dip, or the reticulocyte levels go way down, then you should consider the Winstrol. Prednisone/Depomedrol on their own will not reverse those downward trends in blood cells ? at least that was my experience. I found that the prednisone assisted with the Winstrol, but didn?t do anything to pull up those blood results when they were way down. If your cat is responding well to the current therapy, then it makes sense to stick with it, but I would also ensure that haematology panels are also run, so that you can change his medication BEFORE the symptoms show of up a significant drop in red cells, white cells, platelets and/or reticulocytes. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of JASON VOGT Sent: January 26, 2022 3:03 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My 11 year old indoor only male cat was diagnosed with FeLV...update... Hello everyone, This morning I took Kitty to my Veterinarian because he was not eating and looked like panting breathing beginning to start again, too. Exactly one month ago, my Veterinarian gave him IV fluids and a shot of Convenia (the injectable antibiotic). He did very well for the last 30 days. Eating, drinking, playing, sleeping - he seemed like his old self again. I am happy about that. I think twice this week though, in the morning just when I got out of bed, I heard him moaning in pain. I just know figured out that was the noise he was making (a moaning sound because he was in pain). I noticed a small sore on his nose also. The Veterinarian talked to me about prednisone. She gave him more SubQ (IV) fluids, another shot of Convenia, and Depomedrol 20mg (20cc shot I think). He weighs around 10.5 pounds. I just did some internet research on Depomedrol and it seems just about the same as Prednisone (possibly a different form of it). It said it is an anti inflamatory and also a drug for leukemia, cancer, arthritis, etc. He is home now. He ate some kibble when he got home and is taking a nap now. Comments and suggestions welcome again, Thank you very much, Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: