From mysrnt at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 01:59:27 2019
From: mysrnt at gmail.com (Deborah Whorley)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:59:27 -0600
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol
 with low WBC
Message-ID: <CA+VQrnJcav1HpbPUEWeLwm=z=SEskudhpN=3ed9E0+=T7AWuVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with
constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she
does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue
as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with
her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible
(see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in
lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due
to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and
mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to
my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years
and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate
giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb

CBC (21Jul2019)
NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have
insisted upon

Test  Result  Flag  Normal Range  Measure
RBC  5.11   L          5.65 8.87         M/?L
HCT  24.4  L          37.3 61.7  %
HGB  7.8  L          13.1 20.5  g/dL
MCV  47.7  L           61.6 73.5  fL
MCH  15.3  L           21.2 25.9  pg
MCHC  32.0           32.0 37.9          g/dL
RDW  23.6  H           13.6 21.7  %
%RETIC  0.2                  %
RETIC  8.7  L           10.0 110.0          K/?L

WBC  * 2.39           5.05 16.76          K/?L
%NEU  * 32.6                  %
%LYM  * 36.8                  %
%MONO * 28.5                  %
%EOS  * 0.4                  %
%BASO  * 1.7                  %
NEU  --.--  2.95 11.64          K/?L
BAND  * Suspected
LYM  * 0.88          1.05 5.10                K/?L
MONO  * 0.68          0.16 1.12 <x-apple-data-detectors://9>          K/?L
EOS  * 0.01          0.06 1.23          K/?L
BASO  * 0.04          0.00 0.10          K/?L
nRBC  * Suspected
PLT  * 182          148 484          K/?L
MPV  17.6  H          8.7 13.2          fL
PDW  --.--  9.1 19.4          fL
PCT  0.32 0.14 0.46          %
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From dlgegg at windstream.net  Thu Jul 25 11:20:50 2019
From: dlgegg at windstream.net (dlgegg at windstream.net)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 12:20:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
In-Reply-To: <CA+VQrnJcav1HpbPUEWeLwm=z=SEskudhpN=3ed9E0+=T7AWuVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+VQrnJcav1HpbPUEWeLwm=z=SEskudhpN=3ed9E0+=T7AWuVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <395767582.31039960.1564071650846.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net>

I am not knowledgeable enough to say anything, best left to Amani.  I can pray for her.
----- Original Message -----
From: Deborah Whorley <mysrnt at gmail.com>
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC

Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - DebCBC (21Jul2019) NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted uponTest Result Flag Normal Range MeasureRBC 5.11  L         5.65 8.87        M/?LHCT 24.4 L         37.3 61.7 %HGB 7.8 L         13.1 20.5 g/dLMCV 47.7 L          61.6 73.5 fLMCH 15.3 L          21.2 25.9 pgMCHC 32.0          32.0 37.9         g/dLRDW 23.6 H          13.6 21.7 %%RETIC 0.2                 %RETIC 8.7 L          10.0 110.0         K/?LWBC * 2.39          5.05 16.76         K/?L%NEU * 32.6                 %%LYM * 36.8                 %%MONO * 28.5                 %%EOS * 0.4                 %%BASO * 1.7                 %NEU --.-- 2.95 11.64         K/?LBAND * SuspectedLYM * 0.88         1.05 5.10                K/?LMONO * 0.68         0.16 1.12         K/?LEOS * 0.01         0.06 1.23         K/?LBASO * 0.04         0.00 0.10         K/?LnRBC * SuspectedPLT * 182         148 484         K/?LMPV 17.6 H         8.7 13.2         fLPDW --.-- 9.1 19.4         fLPCT 0.320.14 0.46         %

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From aoakley at oakleylegal.com  Thu Jul 25 11:45:12 2019
From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0000
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
In-Reply-To: <CA+VQrnJcav1HpbPUEWeLwm=z=SEskudhpN=3ed9E0+=T7AWuVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+VQrnJcav1HpbPUEWeLwm=z=SEskudhpN=3ed9E0+=T7AWuVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>

Hi Deborah

The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count.

Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with a chronic infection as well.

If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination.

Amani

From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley
Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC

Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb

CBC (21Jul2019)
NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted upon

Test    Result            Flag    Normal Range          Measure
RBC    5.11     L                 5.65 8.87                  M/?L
HCT    24.4    L                  37.3 61.7                       %
HGB    7.8                  L                  13.1 20.5                       g/dL
MCV   47.7    L                   61.6 73.5                      fL
MCH   15.3    L                   21.2 25.9                      pg
MCHC             32.0                         32.0 37.9                  g/dL
RDW  23.6    H                  13.6 21.7                      %
%RETIC         0.2                                                                                  %
RETIC            8.7                  L                   10.0 110.0                K/?L

WBC   * 2.39                      5.05 16.76                K/?L
%NEU            * 32.6                                                                 %
%LYM            * 36.8                                                                 %
%MONO * 28.5                                                                        %
%EOS             * 0.4                                                                    %
%BASO          * 1.7                                                                    %
NEU    --.--                             2.95 11.64             K/?L
BAND             * Suspected
LYM    * 0.88                     1.05 5.10                K/?L
MONO            * 0.68                     0.16 1.12<x-apple-data-detectors://9>                   K/?L
EOS     * 0.01                     0.06 1.23                   K/?L
BASO  * 0.04                     0.00 0.10                   K/?L
nRBC  * Suspected
PLT                 * 182                      148 484          K/?L
MPV   17.6    H                 8.7 13.2                      fL
PDW   --.--                             9.1 19.4                             fL
PCT     0.32                            0.14 0.46               %
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From mysrnt at gmail.com  Thu Jul 25 13:14:10 2019
From: mysrnt at gmail.com (Deborah Whorley)
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 12:14:10 -0600
Subject: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 56, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
References: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
Message-ID: <CA+VQrn+feiEY05wCk28R=1EQAgBkqcXnyCVB6bMmUckAX+=pfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Amani. Good advice, hopefully my vet will agree.

Deb

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 <felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org> wrote:

> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>         felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
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>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol
>       with low WBC (Amani Oakley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0000
> From: Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com>
> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
>         Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
> Message-ID:
>         <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Deborah
>
> The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is
> the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count.
>
> Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they
> can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of
> inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory
> system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that
> there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with
> a chronic infection as well.
>
> If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of
> antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram
> negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with
> another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more
> unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I
> would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent
> enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself
> wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably
> wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement
> on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Deborah
> Whorley
> Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
> Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
>
> Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with
> constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she
> does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue
> as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with
> her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible
> (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in
> lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due
> to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and
> mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to
> my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years
> and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate
> giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb
>
> CBC (21Jul2019)
> NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have
> insisted upon
>
> Test    Result            Flag    Normal Range          Measure
> RBC    5.11     L                 5.65 8.87                  M/?L
> HCT    24.4    L                  37.3 61.7                       %
> HGB    7.8                  L                  13.1 20.5
>      g/dL
> MCV   47.7    L                   61.6 73.5                      fL
> MCH   15.3    L                   21.2 25.9                      pg
> MCHC             32.0                         32.0 37.9
> g/dL
> RDW  23.6    H                  13.6 21.7                      %
> %RETIC         0.2
>                           %
> RETIC            8.7                  L                   10.0 110.0
>           K/?L
>
> WBC   * 2.39                      5.05 16.76                K/?L
> %NEU            * 32.6
>              %
> %LYM            * 36.8
>              %
> %MONO * 28.5
>           %
> %EOS             * 0.4
>                 %
> %BASO          * 1.7
>               %
> NEU    --.--                             2.95 11.64             K/?L
> BAND             * Suspected
> LYM    * 0.88                     1.05 5.10                K/?L
> MONO            * 0.68                     0.16
> 1.12<x-apple-data-detectors://9>                   K/?L
> EOS     * 0.01                     0.06 1.23                   K/?L
> BASO  * 0.04                     0.00 0.10                   K/?L
> nRBC  * Suspected
> PLT                 * 182                      148 484          K/?L
> MPV   17.6    H                 8.7 13.2                      fL
> PDW   --.--                             9.1 19.4
>    fL
> PCT     0.32                            0.14 0.46               %
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ***************************************
>
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From mysrnt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 26 10:42:41 2019
From: mysrnt at gmail.com (Deborah Whorley)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 09:42:41 -0600
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
In-Reply-To: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
References: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
Message-ID: <CA+VQrnJ2cB2YBhhLn8R2RgM3eNJXb+FPnEghtmHHp3SsnW_d+A@mail.gmail.com>

Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried your
protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and will
present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try.

Thanks,
Deb

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 <felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org> wrote:

> Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
>         felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol
>       with low WBC (Amani Oakley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0000
> From: Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com>
> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
>         Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
> Message-ID:
>         <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Deborah
>
> The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is
> the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count.
>
> Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they
> can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of
> inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory
> system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that
> there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with
> a chronic infection as well.
>
> If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of
> antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram
> negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with
> another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more
> unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I
> would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent
> enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself
> wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably
> wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement
> on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Deborah
> Whorley
> Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
> Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
>
> Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with
> constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she
> does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue
> as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with
> her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible
> (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in
> lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due
> to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and
> mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to
> my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years
> and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate
> giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb
>
> CBC (21Jul2019)
> NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have
> insisted upon
>
> Test    Result            Flag    Normal Range          Measure
> RBC    5.11     L                 5.65 8.87                  M/?L
> HCT    24.4    L                  37.3 61.7                       %
> HGB    7.8                  L                  13.1 20.5
>      g/dL
> MCV   47.7    L                   61.6 73.5                      fL
> MCH   15.3    L                   21.2 25.9                      pg
> MCHC             32.0                         32.0 37.9
> g/dL
> RDW  23.6    H                  13.6 21.7                      %
> %RETIC         0.2
>                           %
> RETIC            8.7                  L                   10.0 110.0
>           K/?L
>
> WBC   * 2.39                      5.05 16.76                K/?L
> %NEU            * 32.6
>              %
> %LYM            * 36.8
>              %
> %MONO * 28.5
>           %
> %EOS             * 0.4
>                 %
> %BASO          * 1.7
>               %
> NEU    --.--                             2.95 11.64             K/?L
> BAND             * Suspected
> LYM    * 0.88                     1.05 5.10                K/?L
> MONO            * 0.68                     0.16
> 1.12<x-apple-data-detectors://9>                   K/?L
> EOS     * 0.01                     0.06 1.23                   K/?L
> BASO  * 0.04                     0.00 0.10                   K/?L
> nRBC  * Suspected
> PLT                 * 182                      148 484          K/?L
> MPV   17.6    H                 8.7 13.2                      fL
> PDW   --.--                             9.1 19.4
>    fL
> PCT     0.32                            0.14 0.46               %
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ***************************************
>
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From aoakley at oakleylegal.com  Fri Jul 26 11:50:30 2019
From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 16:50:30 +0000
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
In-Reply-To: <CA+VQrnJ2cB2YBhhLn8R2RgM3eNJXb+FPnEghtmHHp3SsnW_d+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
	<CA+VQrnJ2cB2YBhhLn8R2RgM3eNJXb+FPnEghtmHHp3SsnW_d+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715997@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>

Hi Deborah

Definitely ? I have heard from several people who have tried the combination Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone and their cats? blood work improved quickly, as well as their cats overall. I have heard from others who tried it but their cat died very quickly (ie ? within a day or two of their posting asking for suggestions). Obviously, it?s impossible to tell, in those cases, whether trying the meds earlier may have helped or whether the meds were just completely ineffective. My suggestion is that if there are other things you are wanting to try, you can probably go ahead and try those other options, in addition to the Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone combination, because I don?t think one thing precludes the other.

There is very little that is effective, other than Zander?s Protocol, when cats are showing severe anemia and the reduction of other cell lines (platelets and white cells), so I don?t think that there?s an awful lot to choose from.

I must tell you though, that I have had very good success using Winstrol in many other circumstances with my cats. I think cats respond well to steroids generally, and my vet told me that once upon a time (20-30 years ago), they used to hand out Winstrol ?like candy? for almost any cat ailment which involved loss of appetite, general malaise, etc. That stopped around the time of the Ben Johnson Olympic scandal (1988 or something like that) and then rumours began to be heard by the vets that Winstrol may damage the liver, so everyone stopped using it. It is a pity, because I find it useful for many conditions and I don?t think vets have anything at all to replace what it can do for cats suffering from anemia, leukemia, etc.

Amani

From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley
Sent: July 26, 2019 11:43 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC

Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried your protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and will present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try.

Thanks,
Deb

On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 <felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol
      with low WBC (Amani Oakley)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0000
From: Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>>
To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>" <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
        Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
Message-ID:
        <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local<mailto:E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Deborah

The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count.

Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with a chronic infection as well.

If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination.

Amani

From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley
Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC

Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb

CBC (21Jul2019)
NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted upon

Test    Result            Flag    Normal Range          Measure
RBC    5.11     L                 5.65 8.87                  M/?L
HCT    24.4    L                  37.3 61.7                       %
HGB    7.8                  L                  13.1 20.5                       g/dL
MCV   47.7    L                   61.6 73.5                      fL
MCH   15.3    L                   21.2 25.9                      pg
MCHC             32.0                         32.0 37.9                  g/dL
RDW  23.6    H                  13.6 21.7                      %
%RETIC         0.2                                                                                  %
RETIC            8.7                  L                   10.0 110.0                K/?L

WBC   * 2.39                      5.05 16.76                K/?L
%NEU            * 32.6                                                                 %
%LYM            * 36.8                                                                 %
%MONO * 28.5                                                                        %
%EOS             * 0.4                                                                    %
%BASO          * 1.7                                                                    %
NEU    --.--                             2.95 11.64             K/?L
BAND             * Suspected
LYM    * 0.88                     1.05 5.10                K/?L
MONO            * 0.68                     0.16 1.12<x-apple-data-detectors://9>                   K/?L
EOS     * 0.01                     0.06 1.23                   K/?L
BASO  * 0.04                     0.00 0.10                   K/?L
nRBC  * Suspected
PLT                 * 182                      148 484          K/?L
MPV   17.6    H                 8.7 13.2                      fL
PDW   --.--                             9.1 19.4                             fL
PCT     0.32                            0.14 0.46               %
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From swacht1946 at comcast.net  Fri Jul 26 17:56:02 2019
From: swacht1946 at comcast.net (Sandra Wachtstetter)
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 18:56:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
In-Reply-To: <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715997@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>
References: <mailman.117.1564073127.121204.felvtalk_felineleukemia.org@felineleukemia.org>
	<CA+VQrnJ2cB2YBhhLn8R2RgM3eNJXb+FPnEghtmHHp3SsnW_d+A@mail.gmail.com>
	<E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715997@OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local>
Message-ID: <1987123551.517567.1564181763936@connect.xfinity.com>

Thank you Amani for giving this information again - if the vet is working with the pet and it's person there really isn't anything to lose trying "Zander's Protocol".


Sandy W

> On July 26, 2019 at 12:50 PM Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Hi Deborah
> 
>      
> 
>     Definitely ? I have heard from several people who have tried the combination Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone and their cats? blood work improved quickly, as well as their cats overall. I have heard from others who tried it but their cat died very quickly (ie ? within a day or two of their posting asking for suggestions). Obviously, it?s impossible to tell, in those cases, whether trying the meds earlier may have helped or whether the meds were just completely ineffective. My suggestion is that if there are other things you are wanting to try, you can probably go ahead and try those other options, in addition to the Doxy/Winstrol/Prednisone combination, because I don?t think one thing precludes the other.
> 
>      
> 
>     There is very little that is effective, other than Zander?s Protocol, when cats are showing severe anemia and the reduction of other cell lines (platelets and white cells), so I don?t think that there?s an awful lot to choose from.
> 
>      
> 
>     I must tell you though, that I have had very good success using Winstrol in many other circumstances with my cats. I think cats respond well to steroids generally, and my vet told me that once upon a time (20-30 years ago), they used to hand out Winstrol ?like candy? for almost any cat ailment which involved loss of appetite, general malaise, etc. That stopped around the time of the Ben Johnson Olympic scandal (1988 or something like that) and then rumours began to be heard by the vets that Winstrol may damage the liver, so everyone stopped using it. It is a pity, because I find it useful for many conditions and I don?t think vets have anything at all to replace what it can do for cats suffering from anemia, leukemia, etc.
> 
>      
> 
>     Amani
> 
>      
> 
>     From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley
>     Sent: July 26, 2019 11:43 AM
>     To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>     Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
> 
>      
> 
>     Amani - have you ever received any feedback from others who have tried your protocol and what their results were? Repeating labs this morning and will present your protocol and history to see if she will let us try. 
> 
>      
> 
>     Thanks,
> 
>     Deb
> 
>      
> 
>     On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 10:45 <felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org > wrote:
> 
>         > > 
> >         Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
> >                 felvtalk at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> > 
> >         To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >                 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> > 
> >         or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >                 felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
> > 
> >         You can reach the person managing the list at
> >                 felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org
> > 
> >         When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >         than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."
> > 
> > 
> >         Today's Topics:
> > 
> >            1. Re: Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol
> >               with low WBC (Amani Oakley)
> > 
> > 
> >         ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> >         Message: 1
> >         Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0000
> >         From: Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com >
> >         To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org " <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org >
> >         Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving
> >                 Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
> >         Message-ID:
> >                 <E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local mailto:E0C1DFB06E10174B9D4AE353A62CECE303A5715321 at OAKLEYSRV.oakley.local >
> >         Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> >         Hi Deborah
> > 
> >         The CBC results are unusual. There is some anemia going on, and there is the low white cell count. There is also an elevated monocyte count.
> > 
> >         Most people are aware that white cells go up with an infection, but they can also go quite low with an infection ? often if there is a focal area of inflammation/infection and white cells are moving out of the circulatory system to go to the site of infection in the tissues. My worry is that there ma be a source of infection somewhere. Monocytes can be elevated with a chronic infection as well.
> > 
> >         If it were my cat, I think I might ask the vets to give more in the way of antibiotics, with a broad enough spectrum to cover Gram positive and Gram negative organisms. I think I might insist on using Doxycycline along with another antibiotic, because the Doxycycline also has an effect on some more unusual organisms like some parasites and some viruses even. I think I would also try the Winstrol if it were me. Winstrol has an excellent enhancing effect on appetite, and may also help with the anemia. I myself wouldn?t be that worried about the prednisone/prednisolone but it probably wouldn?t hurt to hold off on that one and see if you get some improvement on the Doxycycline/Other Antibiotic/Winstrol combination.
> > 
> >         Amani
> > 
> >         From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org > On Behalf Of Deborah Whorley
> >         Sent: July 25, 2019 2:59 AM
> >         To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >         Subject: [Felvtalk] Chablis - seeking advise about giving Pred/Doxy/Winstrol with low WBC
> > 
> >         Hi - one of my FeLV+ cats, Chablis (F, 5 yrs), has been dealing with constipation since Jan of this year. Last week she stopped eating like she does when she is ?backed up? but 100 cc SQ fluids didn?t resolve the issue as it normally does. She also started wheezing Sat eve.  I ended up with her in the emergency clinic on Sun and to my surprise her CBC was terrible (see below). Radiograph revealed no constipation or obvious masses in lungs/abdomen. ER vet, and my vet the next day, reluctant to give pred due to low WBC. Treating dehydration and inappetance with SQ fluids and mertazapine. ER vet also gave Convenia "just in case?. Going back on Fri to my vet for another CBC. Have been following this group for several years and want to try Amani?s treatment protocol, but does low WBC contraindicate giving prepnisolone and/or Winstrol? Thanks in advance for any advise. - Deb
> > 
> >         CBC (21Jul2019)
> >         NOTE: they did not repeat the analysis which, in hindsight, I should have insisted upon
> > 
> >         Test    Result            Flag    Normal Range          Measure
> >         RBC    5.11     L                 5.65 8.87                  M/?L
> >         HCT    24.4    L                  37.3 61.7                       %
> >         HGB    7.8                  L                  13.1 20.5                       g/dL
> >         MCV   47.7    L                   61.6 73.5                      fL
> >         MCH   15.3    L                   21.2 25.9                      pg
> >         MCHC             32.0                         32.0 37.9                  g/dL
> >         RDW  23.6    H                  13.6 21.7                      %
> >         %RETIC         0.2                                                                                  %
> >         RETIC            8.7                  L                   10.0 110.0                K/?L
> > 
> >         WBC   * 2.39                      5.05 16.76                K/?L
> >         %NEU            * 32.6                                                                 %
> >         %LYM            * 36.8                                                                 %
> >         %MONO * 28.5                                                                        %
> >         %EOS             * 0.4                                                                    %
> >         %BASO          * 1.7                                                                    %
> >         NEU    --.--                             2.95 11.64             K/?L
> >         BAND             * Suspected
> >         LYM    * 0.88                     1.05 5.10                K/?L
> >         MONO            * 0.68                     0.16 1.12<x-apple-data-detectors://9>                   K/?L
> >         EOS     * 0.01                     0.06 1.23                   K/?L
> >         BASO  * 0.04                     0.00 0.10                   K/?L
> >         nRBC  * Suspected
> >         PLT                 * 182                      148 484          K/?L
> >         MPV   17.6    H                 8.7 13.2                      fL
> >         PDW   --.--                             9.1 19.4                             fL
> >         PCT     0.32                            0.14 0.46               %
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> > 
> >         Subject: Digest Footer
> > 
> >         _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> >         ------------------------------
> > 
> >         End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 56, Issue 2
> >         ***************************************
> > 
> >     > 


 

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