From pilotom at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 19 12:03:04 2019 From: pilotom at bellsouth.net (Maribel Piloto) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:03:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] Shelf life for Winstrol In-Reply-To: References: <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005@mail.yahoo.com> <758541374.118203.1525999705382@connect.xfinity.com> <4371704D-888F-47A3-9163-24187C4939E8@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1860534254.1852432.1550599384737@mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, Around May 2018 I had an anemic Leuk+ cat named Flaqui and bought the regimen Amani mentions in the e-mail below this one with the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone.? ?I never got a chance to use the meds with Flaqui as she passed before I could do so.? ?Today I just received the results from bloodwork of another Leuk+ cat I have named Buster.? His Hematocrit is at 11.5 and I would like to start him on this regimen before he gets any more anemic.? ?Do you all know if I could still use the meds?? ?They have been kept on the door of my fridge since I got them.?? Here are Buster's other numbers... Glucose - 62 Low (normal is 80-200)Sodium 143?Potassium 4.6Chloride 113CO2 13 Low (normal is 15-28)Sodium/Potassium 31Anion Gap 22Serum Osmolality 309Urea Nitrogen 56.5 High (normal is 15-37.5)Creatinine 2.0BUN/Creatinine 28Total Protein 6.6Albumin 2.4Globulin 4.2A/G Ratio 0.6Calcim 6.7 Low (8.9-10.9)Phosphorus 4.8 (2.4-8.0)CL/P Ratio 24Bilirubin Total 0.02Bilirubin Direct 0.02Alk Phospatase 17ALT (SGPT) 21AST (SGOT) 27GGT 1Creatine Kinase 139Cholesterol 158Triglycerides 30Amylase 1261Leukocytes WBC 24.7 High (5.0-17.5)Erythrocytes RBC 2.54 Low (5.50-10.0)Hemoglobin 3.4 Low (8.0-15.0)Hematocrit 11.5 Low (24-46)MCV 45MCH 13.2MCHC 29.1 Low (30-38)Seg Neutrophils 73Band Neutrophils 0Lymphocytes 22Monocytes 4 "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of Sandy Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp ? This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy W ? Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. ?Hope this helps! Amani ? ?From:?Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]?On Behalf Of?gary Sent:?January-27-17 4:04 PM To:?felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject:?Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV ?Amani, Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them. Thanks,?? Gary ?On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote: Hi Sherri I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising. Amani _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org Hi Liz The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc. Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats? gums/ears/pads pinkening up. The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia. Here is a blurb I found about it: Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets. In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial swelling or angioedema. When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol. Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color. Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in US horse races. If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a compounding pharmacy. The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose. Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage. The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again. Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also works to enhance the production of bone cells (effective against osteoporosis). The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage. And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up, because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were in a normal range. During that ten month period, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off the Winstrol. Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline. Amani From:?Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]?On Behalf Of?Liz McCarty Sent:?September-15-16 1:40 PM To:?felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject:?[Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV ?Hi everyone, Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had him on doxycycline? in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that and know if it was effective? I also started him on Pet Tinic.?? Any other suggestions? Any insight into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone marrow.? I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated. She's not FeLV positive. Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested.?? http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance. Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438 On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto wrote: ? ? Hi all, ? I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic.? Her name is Flaqui.??She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of?months ago (already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat?with not much time left so I took her home?to give?her some comfort in her final days.? When I?took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+.???I decided to keep her in my room?where I have another Leuk+ guy.? I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the?bedroom windows so they can enjoy the outside. ? Flaqui's?numbers in January 2018 were... ? RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0) MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0) MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.3% RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50) EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600) Everything else was normal ? I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 among other things.? Also?giving her Vetri-DMG.?? She initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole.? She's also been dewormed and got Revolution.?? Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so?last week I had bloodwork done again.? Here are the results... ? RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB?8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV?39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW MCH -?21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH MCHC -?--- g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.1% RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0) WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH Everything else was normal ? My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere.? I was really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous.?? With that cat, Grayson,?I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia.? He eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his anemia at bay. ? I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home?with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui. ? Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?? She does not have kidney problems.? However, based on the reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have? non-regenerative anaemia.?? I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV... ? In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%. ? Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration. ? In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected value, the lower the regenerative response). ? Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 which indicates non-regeneration. ? Any help would be appreciated.? Flaqui has been doing better the last couple of days.? I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could improve those HCT numbers. ? Maribel & Flaqui. ? "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi ? _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Tue Feb 19 12:09:30 2019 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:09:30 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] Shelf life for Winstrol In-Reply-To: <1860534254.1852432.1550599384737@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005@mail.yahoo.com> <758541374.118203.1525999705382@connect.xfinity.com> <4371704D-888F-47A3-9163-24187C4939E8@bellsouth.net> <1860534254.1852432.1550599384737@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes ? you can use the meds. They don?t even need to be refrigerated and if anything the concern would be that being kept in the fridge may expose them to moisture. They can be kept at room temperature and dry and they will not ?expire?. Many meds are like this. See this link for an interesting discussion about ?expiring? medications. https://www.propublica.org/article/the-myth-of-drug-expiration-dates Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Maribel Piloto Sent: February 19, 2019 1:03 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Shelf life for Winstrol Hi all, Around May 2018 I had an anemic Leuk+ cat named Flaqui and bought the regimen Amani mentions in the e-mail below this one with the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone. I never got a chance to use the meds with Flaqui as she passed before I could do so. Today I just received the results from bloodwork of another Leuk+ cat I have named Buster. His Hematocrit is at 11.5 and I would like to start him on this regimen before he gets any more anemic. Do you all know if I could still use the meds? They have been kept on the door of my fridge since I got them. Here are Buster's other numbers... Glucose - 62 Low (normal is 80-200) Sodium 143 Potassium 4.6 Chloride 113 CO2 13 Low (normal is 15-28) Sodium/Potassium 31 Anion Gap 22 Serum Osmolality 309 Urea Nitrogen 56.5 High (normal is 15-37.5) Creatinine 2.0 BUN/Creatinine 28 Total Protein 6.6 Albumin 2.4 Globulin 4.2 A/G Ratio 0.6 Calcim 6.7 Low (8.9-10.9) Phosphorus 4.8 (2.4-8.0) CL/P Ratio 24 Bilirubin Total 0.02 Bilirubin Direct 0.02 Alk Phospatase 17 ALT (SGPT) 21 AST (SGOT) 27 GGT 1 Creatine Kinase 139 Cholesterol 158 Triglycerides 30 Amylase 1261 Leukocytes WBC 24.7 High (5.0-17.5) Erythrocytes RBC 2.54 Low (5.50-10.0) Hemoglobin 3.4 Low (8.0-15.0) Hematocrit 11.5 Low (24-46) MCV 45 MCH 13.2 MCHC 29.1 Low (30-38) Seg Neutrophils 73 Band Neutrophils 0 Lymphocytes 22 Monocytes 4 "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sandy Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy W Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. Hope this helps! Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV Amani, Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them. Thanks, Gary On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote: Hi Sherri I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising. Amani _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org Hi Liz The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc. Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats? gums/ears/pads pinkening up. The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia. Here is a blurb I found about it: Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets. In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial swelling or angioedema. When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol. Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color. Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in US horse races. If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a compounding pharmacy. The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose. Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage. The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again. Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also works to enhance the production of bone cells (effective against osteoporosis). The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage. And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up, because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were in a normal range. During that ten month period, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off the Winstrol. Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Liz McCarty Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV Hi everyone, Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had him on doxycycline in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that and know if it was effective? I also started him on Pet Tinic. Any other suggestions? Any insight into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone marrow. I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated. She's not FeLV positive. Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested. http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance. Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438 On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto > wrote: Hi all, I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic. Her name is Flaqui. She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago (already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat with not much time left so I took her home to give her some comfort in her final days. When I took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+. I decided to keep her in my room where I have another Leuk+ guy. I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the bedroom windows so they can enjoy the outside. Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were... RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0) MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0) MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.3% RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50) EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600) Everything else was normal I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 among other things. Also giving her Vetri-DMG. She initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole. She's also been dewormed and got Revolution. Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork done again. Here are the results... RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.1% RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0) WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH Everything else was normal My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere. I was really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous. With that cat, Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia. He eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his anemia at bay. I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui. Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her? She does not have kidney problems. However, based on the reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have non-regenerative anaemia. I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV... In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%. Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration. In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected value, the lower the regenerative response). Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 which indicates non-regeneration. Any help would be appreciated. Flaqui has been doing better the last couple of days. I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could improve those HCT numbers. Maribel & Flaqui. "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pilotom at bellsouth.net Tue Feb 19 12:14:49 2019 From: pilotom at bellsouth.net (Maribel Piloto) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 18:14:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] Shelf life for Winstrol In-Reply-To: References: <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2138741583.2182024.1525982957005@mail.yahoo.com> <758541374.118203.1525999705382@connect.xfinity.com> <4371704D-888F-47A3-9163-24187C4939E8@bellsouth.net> <1860534254.1852432.1550599384737@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1602995500.1860914.1550600089304@mail.yahoo.com> THANK YOU Amani.? Going to try to help this guy before he needs a blood transfusion.? ? Maribel "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi On Tuesday, February 19, 2019, 1:12:50 PM EST, Amani Oakley wrote: Yes ? you can use the meds. They don?t even need to be refrigerated and if anything the concern would be that being kept in the fridge may expose them to moisture. They can be kept at room temperature and dry and they will not ?expire?. Many meds are like this. ? See this link for an interesting discussion about ?expiring? medications.https://www.propublica.org/article/the-myth-of-drug-expiration-dates ? Amani ? From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Maribel Piloto Sent: February 19, 2019 1:03 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Shelf life for Winstrol ? Hi all, ? Around May 2018 I had an anemic Leuk+ cat named Flaqui and bought the regimen Amani mentions in the e-mail below this one with the Winstrol, Doxy and Prednisolone.? ?I never got a chance to use the meds with Flaqui as she passed before I could do so.? ?Today I just received the results from bloodwork of another Leuk+ cat I have named Buster.? His Hematocrit is at 11.5 and I would like to start him on this regimen before he gets any more anemic.? ?Do you all know if I could still use the meds?? ?They have been kept on the door of my fridge since I got them.?? ? Here are Buster's other numbers... ? Glucose - 62 Low (normal is 80-200) Sodium 143? Potassium 4.6 Chloride 113 CO2 13 Low (normal is 15-28) Sodium/Potassium 31 Anion Gap 22 Serum Osmolality 309 Urea Nitrogen 56.5 High (normal is 15-37.5) Creatinine 2.0 BUN/Creatinine 28 Total Protein 6.6 Albumin 2.4 Globulin 4.2 A/G Ratio 0.6 Calcim 6.7 Low (8.9-10.9) Phosphorus 4.8 (2.4-8.0) CL/P Ratio 24 Bilirubin Total 0.02 Bilirubin Direct 0.02 Alk Phospatase 17 ALT (SGPT) 21 AST (SGOT) 27 GGT 1 Creatine Kinase 139 Cholesterol 158 Triglycerides 30 Amylase 1261 Leukocytes WBC 24.7 High (5.0-17.5) Erythrocytes RBC 2.54 Low (5.50-10.0) Hemoglobin 3.4 Low (8.0-15.0) Hematocrit 11.5 Low (24-46) MCV 45 MCH 13.2 MCHC 29.1 Low (30-38) Seg Neutrophils 73 Band Neutrophils 0 Lymphocytes 22 Monocytes 4 ? "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi ? From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of Sandy Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp ? This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose - BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will probably get more responses - Sandy W ? Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. ?Hope this helps! Amani ? ?From:?Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]?On Behalf Of?gary Sent:?January-27-17 4:04 PM To:?felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject:?Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV ?Amani, Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them. Thanks,?? Gary ?On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote: Hi Sherri I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising. Amani _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org Hi Liz The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a corticosteroid. Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc. Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats? gums/ears/pads pinkening up. The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema and anemia. Here is a blurb I found about it: Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later, in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets. In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons. But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial swelling or angioedema. When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003. However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however, several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol. Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color. Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used to dope horses in US horse races. If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from a compounding pharmacy. The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose. Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver damage. The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again. Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also works to enhance the production of bone cells (effective against osteoporosis). The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage. And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.) and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up, because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were in a normal range. During that ten month period, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off the Winstrol. Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline. Amani From:?Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]?On Behalf Of?Liz McCarty Sent:?September-15-16 1:40 PM To:?felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject:?[Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV ?Hi everyone, Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks now. They had him on doxycycline? in case there was a bacterial cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone have experience with that and know if it was effective? I also started him on Pet Tinic.?? Any other suggestions? Any insight into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone marrow.? I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated. She's not FeLV positive. Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is interested.?? http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance. Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438 On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto wrote: ? ? Hi all, ? I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic.? Her name is Flaqui.??She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of?months ago (already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat?with not much time left so I took her home?to give?her some comfort in her final days.? When I?took her to the vet it turned out that she isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+.???I decided to keep her in my room?where I have another Leuk+ guy.? I'm building a little catio for them outside one of the?bedroom windows so they can enjoy the outside. ? Flaqui's?numbers in January 2018 were... ? RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0) MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0) MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.3% RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50) EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600) Everything else was normal ? I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron and B-12 among other things.? Also?giving her Vetri-DMG.?? She initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with Metronidazole.? She's also been dewormed and got Revolution.?? Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing weight (down to 5 lbs) so?last week I had bloodwork done again.? Here are the results... ? RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW HGB?8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW MCV?39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW MCH -?21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH MCHC -?--- g/dL (29.0-37.5) RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0) %RETIC - 1.1% RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0) WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH Everything else was normal ? My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere.? I was really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous.?? With that cat, Grayson,?I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia.? He eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his anemia at bay. ? I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home?with medical needs including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui. ? Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?? She does not have kidney problems.? However, based on the reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have? non-regenerative anaemia.?? I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be adjusted based on PCV... ? In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%. ? Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration. ? In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the corrected value, the lower the regenerative response). ? Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35 = .46 which indicates non-regeneration. ? Any help would be appreciated.? Flaqui has been doing better the last couple of days.? I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish I could improve those HCT numbers. ? Maribel & Flaqui. ? "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Mohandas Ghandi ? _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Thu Feb 21 18:22:57 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 19:22:57 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Message-ID: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> Hello, I'm a new member. While caring for my cousin's cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She's already slightly anemic. Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there's a good chance she'll still live her "normal span" --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I'm told. I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I'm of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I'm not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. I think I've drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I've left out something important. FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don't scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Thu Feb 21 20:40:03 2019 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 02:40:03 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> Message-ID: Hi Lorraine What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the following combination of medications: Winstrol (Stanazolol) - 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline - 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone - ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low - like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in the sports world. I haven't yet figures out why this should matter in the animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific - carry on. If you do, many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes - sometimes dramatically. Vets will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I didn't see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat's results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) I hope this helps. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February 21, 2019 7:23 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Hello, I'm a new member. While caring for my cousin's cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She's already slightly anemic. Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there's a good chance she'll still live her "normal span" --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I'm told. I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I'm of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I'm not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. I think I've drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I've left out something important. FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don't scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From swacht1946 at comcast.net Thu Feb 21 20:53:34 2019 From: swacht1946 at comcast.net (Sandra Wachtstetter) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 21:53:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> Message-ID: <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> Lorraine - I am part of the group and have the following into - from Amani - so you can see a bit more From: Amani Oakley Sent: June-10-18 3:22 PM To: 'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org mailto:'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org ' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 What a very sad story about your blind cat. I understand your heart break. I too have placed cats into what I thought were excellent homes, only to have a sad, and an unnecessarily tragic outcome. I have probably adopted out close to 400 cats in the time my husband and I have been rescuing cats. Thankfully, most of the time, people are just really happy to return a cat to me if things aren?t working out, but I know only too well that once out of my hands, you?re at the mercy of what someone else thinks is the right thing to do. Your email to FeLV talk goes out to everyone on the list at the same time. I will often answer regarding FeLV because I was lucky enough to have stumbled on a medication protocol (which I was calling Zander?s protocol) which treated my Zander?s FeLV when EVERYTHING else had failed. I used to be a medical lab technologist, so lab results are key to me. When trying Zander on the various medications that were suggested as assisting with FeLV, I got weekly bloodwork done and would study the results to see which direction his bloodwork was going. Nothing worked at all (Interferon, LTCI, combo of prednisone/Doxy) and I kept him alive with several blood transfusions. When that was no longer an option because he had had a reaction during his last blood transfusion and the next one would kill him, I rummaged around in my drawer of cat meds, and had nothing else at all to try but figured what the hell and tried him on Winstrol (Stanazalol) which I thought might at least keep him eating and maybe keep him alive a bit longer. To my complete and utter amazement and disbelief, after just a few days on Winstrol, his ivory white gums and inner ears (signs of his profound anemia) started showing a slight pinkish blush. The next blood work (a few days later) showed the first uptick in hematocrit that I had seen with him since the FeLV crisis had begun, which was not brought on by the artificial increase in red cells from his transfusions. I kept him on the combination of prednisone/doxycycline/winstrol for more than a year, while his hematocrit climbed from 10 and back into the normal reference range of 25 to 45. Every time I tried to stop or reduce the dosage of winstrol, his blood results would show an immediate drop in red cells and hematocrit, so even though his liver enzymes went way up (the reason Winstrol had fallen out of favour with the vets), I really had no choice but to continue since the vets had nothing else to offer me and the alternative was he was going to die from the FeLV infection. He recovered fully, looked marvelous and amazing, ate well, and his liver enzymes went right back to normal once I discontinued the Winstrol ? something like 10 months later. No one seemed to know this combination, and the vets I spoke with seemed wary or suspicious that this combination would indeed be helpful in FeLV (except mine ? who had of course seen the weekly blood work showing a slow and steady rise in red cells and ultimately, in white cells and platelets, until his entire hematological profile looked perfectly fine). At the time, I was understandably extremely excited by the effects of the Winstrol and I believe that the Winstrol was able to cause the production of new bone marrow cells (something it has been found to do in osteoporotic women) and thus, new cells which could produce the red cells. However, I now also think that the combination worked because the Doxycycline was able to retard or slow down the viral replication, to allow the red cell production to move ahead with less risk that the FeLV would attack the new bone marrow cells. I have been told that the prednisone helps protect the liver from the Winstrol, but I also think that it?s anti-inflammatory properties helped in areas like intestinal inflammation (Zander had lots of trouble eating and keeping the food down). So, I think maybe I by accident stumbled on this combination but was able to understand what might be happening and why it might have worked, because of my scientific/medical training. Zander lived another 7 years and died from a heart condition which I wondered at the time if it was related, and it might have been, but it probably was that the virus had done a fair amount of damage to certain organs before I was able to get it under control. We loved Zander to a crazy extent, and I wanted him with us for longer than 7 years but given that the vets were telling us there was no hope when he was only six months old, I guess I must just be grateful that we had him for so much longer than that. Amani > On February 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM Amani Oakley wrote: > > > Hi Lorraine > > > > What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the following combination of medications: > > > > Winstrol (Stanazolol) ? 1 mg twice a day > > Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day > > Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day > > If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. > > If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. > > > > Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in the sports world. I haven?t yet figures out why this should matter in the animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific ? carry on. If you do, many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. > > I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes ? sometimes dramatically. Vets will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. > > How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I didn?t see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat?s results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) > > I hope this helps. > > Amani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston > Sent: February 21, 2019 7:23 PM > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro > > > > Hello, > > I?m a new member. While caring for my cousin?s cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She?s already slightly anemic. > > Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. > > Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there?s a good chance she?ll still live her ?normal span? --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I?m told. > > I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I?m of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. > > I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I?m not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. > > On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. > > I think I?ve drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I?ve left out something important. > > FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don?t scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: > > > > - Lorraine > > > > "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Thu Feb 21 21:17:55 2019 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 03:17:55 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: Boy I t blab a lot, don?t I? Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Sandra Wachtstetter Sent: February 21, 2019 9:54 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Lorraine - I am part of the group and have the following into - from Amani - so you can see a bit more From: Amani Oakley Sent: June-10-18 3:22 PM To: 'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 What a very sad story about your blind cat. I understand your heart break. I too have placed cats into what I thought were excellent homes, only to have a sad, and an unnecessarily tragic outcome. I have probably adopted out close to 400 cats in the time my husband and I have been rescuing cats. Thankfully, most of the time, people are just really happy to return a cat to me if things aren?t working out, but I know only too well that once out of my hands, you?re at the mercy of what someone else thinks is the right thing to do. Your email to FeLV talk goes out to everyone on the list at the same time. I will often answer regarding FeLV because I was lucky enough to have stumbled on a medication protocol (which I was calling Zander?s protocol) which treated my Zander?s FeLV when EVERYTHING else had failed. I used to be a medical lab technologist, so lab results are key to me. When trying Zander on the various medications that were suggested as assisting with FeLV, I got weekly bloodwork done and would study the results to see which direction his bloodwork was going. Nothing worked at all (Interferon, LTCI, combo of prednisone/Doxy) and I kept him alive with several blood transfusions. When that was no longer an option because he had had a reaction during his last blood transfusion and the next one would kill him, I rummaged around in my drawer of cat meds, and had nothing else at all to try but figured what the hell and tried him on Winstrol (Stanazalol) which I thought might at least keep him eating and maybe keep him alive a bit longer. To my complete and utter amazement and disbelief, after just a few days on Winstrol, his ivory white gums and inner ears (signs of his profound anemia) started showing a slight pinkish blush. The next blood work (a few days later) showed the first uptick in hematocrit that I had seen with him since the FeLV crisis had begun, which was not brought on by the artificial increase in red cells from his transfusions. I kept him on the combination of prednisone/doxycycline/winstrol for more than a year, while his hematocrit climbed from 10 and back into the normal reference range of 25 to 45. Every time I tried to stop or reduce the dosage of winstrol, his blood results would show an immediate drop in red cells and hematocrit, so even though his liver enzymes went way up (the reason Winstrol had fallen out of favour with the vets), I really had no choice but to continue since the vets had nothing else to offer me and the alternative was he was going to die from the FeLV infection. He recovered fully, looked marvelous and amazing, ate well, and his liver enzymes went right back to normal once I discontinued the Winstrol ? something like 10 months later. No one seemed to know this combination, and the vets I spoke with seemed wary or suspicious that this combination would indeed be helpful in FeLV (except mine ? who had of course seen the weekly blood work showing a slow and steady rise in red cells and ultimately, in white cells and platelets, until his entire hematological profile looked perfectly fine). At the time, I was understandably extremely excited by the effects of the Winstrol and I believe that the Winstrol was able to cause the production of new bone marrow cells (something it has been found to do in osteoporotic women) and thus, new cells which could produce the red cells. However, I now also think that the combination worked because the Doxycycline was able to retard or slow down the viral replication, to allow the red cell production to move ahead with less risk that the FeLV would attack the new bone marrow cells. I have been told that the prednisone helps protect the liver from the Winstrol, but I also think that it?s anti-inflammatory properties helped in areas like intestinal inflammation (Zander had lots of trouble eating and keeping the food down). So, I think maybe I by accident stumbled on this combination but was able to understand what might be happening and why it might have worked, because of my scientific/medical training. Zander lived another 7 years and died from a heart condition which I wondered at the time if it was related, and it might have been, but it probably was that the virus had done a fair amount of damage to certain organs before I was able to get it under control. We loved Zander to a crazy extent, and I wanted him with us for longer than 7 years but given that the vets were telling us there was no hope when he was only six months old, I guess I must just be grateful that we had him for so much longer than that. Amani On February 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM Amani Oakley > wrote: Hi Lorraine What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the following combination of medications: Winstrol (Stanazolol) ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in the sports world. I haven?t yet figures out why this should matter in the animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific ? carry on. If you do, many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes ? sometimes dramatically. Vets will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I didn?t see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat?s results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) I hope this helps. Amani From: Felvtalk > On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February 21, 2019 7:23 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Hello, I?m a new member. While caring for my cousin?s cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She?s already slightly anemic. Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there?s a good chance she?ll still live her ?normal span? --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I?m told. I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I?m of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I?m not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. I think I?ve drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I?ve left out something important. FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don?t scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 07:40:57 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:40:57 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <006401d4cab4$3e303de0$ba90b9a0$@net> Thank you. I?ve shared your info with my cousin. - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:18 PM To: Sandra Wachtstetter; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Boy I t blab a lot, don?t I? Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Sandra Wachtstetter Sent: February 21, 2019 9:54 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Lorraine - I am part of the group and have the following into - from Amani - so you can see a bit more From: Amani Oakley Sent: June-10-18 3:22 PM To: 'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 What a very sad story about your blind cat. I understand your heart break. I too have placed cats into what I thought were excellent homes, only to have a sad, and an unnecessarily tragic outcome. I have probably adopted out close to 400 cats in the time my husband and I have been rescuing cats. Thankfully, most of the time, people are just really happy to return a cat to me if things aren?t working out, but I know only too well that once out of my hands, you?re at the mercy of what someone else thinks is the right thing to do. Your email to FeLV talk goes out to everyone on the list at the same time. I will often answer regarding FeLV because I was lucky enough to have stumbled on a medication protocol (which I was calling Zander?s protocol) which treated my Zander?s FeLV when EVERYTHING else had failed. I used to be a medical lab technologist, so lab results are key to me. When trying Zander on the various medications that were suggested as assisting with FeLV, I got weekly bloodwork done and would study the results to see which direction his bloodwork was going. Nothing worked at all (Interferon, LTCI, combo of prednisone/Doxy) and I kept him alive with several blood transfusions. When that was no longer an option because he had had a reaction during his last blood transfusion and the next one would kill him, I rummaged around in my drawer of cat meds, and had nothing else at all to try but figured what the hell and tried him on Winstrol (Stanazalol) which I thought might at least keep him eating and maybe keep him alive a bit longer. To my complete and utter amazement and disbelief, after just a few days on Winstrol, his ivory white gums and inner ears (signs of his profound anemia) started showing a slight pinkish blush. The next blood work (a few days later) showed the first uptick in hematocrit that I had seen with him since the FeLV crisis had begun, which was not brought on by the artificial increase in red cells from his transfusions. I kept him on the combination of prednisone/doxycycline/winstrol for more than a year, while his hematocrit climbed from 10 and back into the normal reference range of 25 to 45. Every time I tried to stop or reduce the dosage of winstrol, his blood results would show an immediate drop in red cells and hematocrit, so even though his liver enzymes went way up (the reason Winstrol had fallen out of favour with the vets), I really had no choice but to continue since the vets had nothing else to offer me and the alternative was he was going to die from the FeLV infection. He recovered fully, looked marvelous and amazing, ate well, and his liver enzymes went right back to normal once I discontinued the Winstrol ? something like 10 months later. No one seemed to know this combination, and the vets I spoke with seemed wary or suspicious that this combination would indeed be helpful in FeLV (except mine ? who had of course seen the weekly blood work showing a slow and steady rise in red cells and ultimately, in white cells and platelets, until his entire hematological profile looked perfectly fine). At the time, I was understandably extremely excited by the effects of the Winstrol and I believe that the Winstrol was able to cause the production of new bone marrow cells (something it has been found to do in osteoporotic women) and thus, new cells which could produce the red cells. However, I now also think that the combination worked because the Doxycycline was able to retard or slow down the viral replication, to allow the red cell production to move ahead with less risk that the FeLV would attack the new bone marrow cells. I have been told that the prednisone helps protect the liver from the Winstrol, but I also think that it?s anti-inflammatory properties helped in areas like intestinal inflammation (Zander had lots of trouble eating and keeping the food down). So, I think maybe I by accident stumbled on this combination but was able to understand what might be happening and why it might have worked, because of my scientific/medical training. Zander lived another 7 years and died from a heart condition which I wondered at the time if it was related, and it might have been, but it probably was that the virus had done a fair amount of damage to certain organs before I was able to get it under control. We loved Zander to a crazy extent, and I wanted him with us for longer than 7 years but given that the vets were telling us there was no hope when he was only six months old, I guess I must just be grateful that we had him for so much longer than that. Amani On February 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM Amani Oakley wrote: Hi Lorraine What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the following combination of medications: Winstrol (Stanazolol) ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in the sports world. I haven?t yet figures out why this should matter in the animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific ? carry on. If you do, many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes ? sometimes dramatically. Vets will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I didn?t see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat?s results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) I hope this helps. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February 21, 2019 7:23 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Hello, I?m a new member. While caring for my cousin?s cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She?s already slightly anemic. Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there?s a good chance she?ll still live her ?normal span? --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I?m told. I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I?m of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I?m not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. I think I?ve drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I?ve left out something important. FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don?t scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 07:41:51 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 08:41:51 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> Message-ID: <006901d4cab4$5e6c31e0$1b4495a0$@net> Thank you, Sandra. I?ve shared your info with my cousin. - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sandra Wachtstetter Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:54 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Lorraine - I am part of the group and have the following into - from Amani - so you can see a bit more From: Amani Oakley Sent: June-10-18 3:22 PM To: 'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org' Subject: RE: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 What a very sad story about your blind cat. I understand your heart break. I too have placed cats into what I thought were excellent homes, only to have a sad, and an unnecessarily tragic outcome. I have probably adopted out close to 400 cats in the time my husband and I have been rescuing cats. Thankfully, most of the time, people are just really happy to return a cat to me if things aren?t working out, but I know only too well that once out of my hands, you?re at the mercy of what someone else thinks is the right thing to do. Your email to FeLV talk goes out to everyone on the list at the same time. I will often answer regarding FeLV because I was lucky enough to have stumbled on a medication protocol (which I was calling Zander?s protocol) which treated my Zander?s FeLV when EVERYTHING else had failed. I used to be a medical lab technologist, so lab results are key to me. When trying Zander on the various medications that were suggested as assisting with FeLV, I got weekly bloodwork done and would study the results to see which direction his bloodwork was going. Nothing worked at all (Interferon, LTCI, combo of prednisone/Doxy) and I kept him alive with several blood transfusions. When that was no longer an option because he had had a reaction during his last blood transfusion and the next one would kill him, I rummaged around in my drawer of cat meds, and had nothing else at all to try but figured what the hell and tried him on Winstrol (Stanazalol) which I thought might at least keep him eating and maybe keep him alive a bit longer. To my complete and utter amazement and disbelief, after just a few days on Winstrol, his ivory white gums and inner ears (signs of his profound anemia) started showing a slight pinkish blush. The next blood work (a few days later) showed the first uptick in hematocrit that I had seen with him since the FeLV crisis had begun, which was not brought on by the artificial increase in red cells from his transfusions. I kept him on the combination of prednisone/doxycycline/winstrol for more than a year, while his hematocrit climbed from 10 and back into the normal reference range of 25 to 45. Every time I tried to stop or reduce the dosage of winstrol, his blood results would show an immediate drop in red cells and hematocrit, so even though his liver enzymes went way up (the reason Winstrol had fallen out of favour with the vets), I really had no choice but to continue since the vets had nothing else to offer me and the alternative was he was going to die from the FeLV infection. He recovered fully, looked marvelous and amazing, ate well, and his liver enzymes went right back to normal once I discontinued the Winstrol ? something like 10 months later. No one seemed to know this combination, and the vets I spoke with seemed wary or suspicious that this combination would indeed be helpful in FeLV (except mine ? who had of course seen the weekly blood work showing a slow and steady rise in red cells and ultimately, in white cells and platelets, until his entire hematological profile looked perfectly fine). At the time, I was understandably extremely excited by the effects of the Winstrol and I believe that the Winstrol was able to cause the production of new bone marrow cells (something it has been found to do in osteoporotic women) and thus, new cells which could produce the red cells. However, I now also think that the combination worked because the Doxycycline was able to retard or slow down the viral replication, to allow the red cell production to move ahead with less risk that the FeLV would attack the new bone marrow cells. I have been told that the prednisone helps protect the liver from the Winstrol, but I also think that it?s anti-inflammatory properties helped in areas like intestinal inflammation (Zander had lots of trouble eating and keeping the food down). So, I think maybe I by accident stumbled on this combination but was able to understand what might be happening and why it might have worked, because of my scientific/medical training. Zander lived another 7 years and died from a heart condition which I wondered at the time if it was related, and it might have been, but it probably was that the virus had done a fair amount of damage to certain organs before I was able to get it under control. We loved Zander to a crazy extent, and I wanted him with us for longer than 7 years but given that the vets were telling us there was no hope when he was only six months old, I guess I must just be grateful that we had him for so much longer than that. Amani On February 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM Amani Oakley wrote: Hi Lorraine What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the following combination of medications: Winstrol (Stanazolol) ? 1 mg twice a day Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide. If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster. Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in the sports world. I haven?t yet figures out why this should matter in the animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific ? carry on. If you do, many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes ? sometimes dramatically. Vets will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I didn?t see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat?s results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) I hope this helps. Amani From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February 21, 2019 7:23 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro Hello, I?m a new member. While caring for my cousin?s cat Baby here in my home during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. She?s already slightly anemic. Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine was worn off by the time of the bite. Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there?s a good chance she?ll still live her ?normal span? --and perhaps even die of something unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I?m told. I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge off of the terrible shock this will give him. I?m of course including cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the US. I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to try difficult-to-administer treatments. I?m not sure how much room their budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this diagnostic info. I think I?ve drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I?ve left out something important. FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don?t scare easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 09:10:16 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:16 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Message-ID: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dlgegg at windstream.net Fri Feb 22 12:37:48 2019 From: dlgegg at windstream.net (dlgegg at windstream.net) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 13:37:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> Message-ID: <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> I have only had FELV cats but never washed my hands after handling them. I treated all the same and have had no experience of the disease spreading to others. I have had up to 10 at a time as all who came to my house became part of my "pride". As they came to me, I took them to the vet for a checkup, spay or neuter and they became mine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorraine Johnston To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 13:03:44 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:03:44 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> Message-ID: <004001d4cae1$55f32f00$01d98d00$@net> Thank you. I guess I should have phrased my question to indicate that I was concerned about spreading FeLV to my non-FeLV cats. If I understand correctly, your cats are, or were, all FeLV-positive, so there would not have been any non-FeLV cats to spread it to? I told my cousin back in December that I would also keep Baby in April when he goes way again. So now I?m trying to determine if that?s safe to do, and what additional precautions (if any) I should take while she?s here to avoid spread, now that we know she?s FeLV-positive. Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: FeLVtalk [mailto:FeLVtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlgegg at windstream.net I have only had FELV cats but never washed my hands after handling them. I treated all the same and have had no experience of the disease spreading to others. I have had up to 10 at a time as all who came to my house became part of my "pride". As they came to me, I took them to the vet for a checkup, spay or neuter and they became mine. ----- Original Message ----- Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pilotom at bellsouth.net Fri Feb 22 13:31:52 2019 From: pilotom at bellsouth.net (Maribel Piloto) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:31:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> Message-ID: <1272577260.3978431.1550863912918@mail.yahoo.com> Keep the Leuk+ guys in a separate room with their own litter box and their own scooper.? Do not mix food or water and put any towels, beds, toys they use through the washing machine before using it for other cats.? ?Washing hands all the time is not something that I normally do EXCEPT be careful about not getting any of their fluids on you (blood, urine, saliva, poop, eye/nose discharge) and then potentially getting that on your non-Leuk guys. Also - if you're keeping your Leuk guys in a separate room, make sure to block the bottom of the door so the cats can't put their paws through or smell one another and possibly sneeze on each other.? ?You can get a piece of wood the length of the door and about 2 ft high and prop it up there with something heavy like one of those big litter pales or better yet - install some screws or other hardware on the wood around the door so you can just slide the wood in or out as you need to.? Whatever you use make sure the cats can't move it because cats are very curious and they will try to move it or get through in order to see what's going on on the other side. If you regularly are going to have Leuk guys in your home either by pet sitting or rescuing them, I would get your non-Leuk guys vaccinated just as extra protection.? ? Maribel ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorraine Johnston To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Hello again, ? For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? ? Thank you, ? - Lorraine ? "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine."? - Alan Turing ? _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Fri Feb 22 13:45:44 2019 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 19:45:44 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: <004001d4cae1$55f32f00$01d98d00$@net> References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> <004001d4cae1$55f32f00$01d98d00$@net> Message-ID: I had my Zander for seven years, mixed with a dozen other cats. I never took any precautions at all. It was too late by the time we figured out he had FeLV. No other cat ever got the infection. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February-22-19 2:04 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Thank you. I guess I should have phrased my question to indicate that I was concerned about spreading FeLV to my non-FeLV cats. If I understand correctly, your cats are, or were, all FeLV-positive, so there would not have been any non-FeLV cats to spread it to? I told my cousin back in December that I would also keep Baby in April when he goes way again. So now I?m trying to determine if that?s safe to do, and what additional precautions (if any) I should take while she?s here to avoid spread, now that we know she?s FeLV-positive. Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: FeLVtalk [mailto:FeLVtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlgegg at windstream.net I have only had FELV cats but never washed my hands after handling them. I treated all the same and have had no experience of the disease spreading to others. I have had up to 10 at a time as all who came to my house became part of my "pride". As they came to me, I took them to the vet for a checkup, spay or neuter and they became mine. ----- Original Message ----- Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 13:51:49 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 14:51:49 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: <1272577260.3978431.1550863912918@mail.yahoo.com> References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> <1272577260.3978431.1550863912918@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006c01d4cae8$0d2e7980$278b6c80$@net> Hello, Maribel, Thank you for this very specific information. It?s quite helpful, and just what I needed to know. Baby, when she stays here, is in my studio, which has a heavy sliding-glass door between Felix and Cuddles who are both vaccinated against FeLV. The other four cats are much farther away, with no doors in common with Baby. Of those four, three are also vaccinated against FeLV, except for Cyril, who is FIV-positive. We might vaccinate Cyril with the Merck killed vaccine this March if his blood antibody titers indicate that?s he doesn?t need any of the core vaccinations boosted, and if his other health parameters indicate that he could mount an immune response to the vaccine. I won?t vaccinate Cyril with the more common recombinant canarypox live/attenuated FeLV vaccines because he had a horrible reaction to the live/attenuated Chlamydia component in the FVRCPC vaccine. Never again! Going forward we will check antibody titers first, and skip specific vaccinations if their titers are adequate. We have three cat-fenced pens (PurrFect Fence). Baby has controlled access to one, but so far is only lukewarm re going outside. If I let her out, I plan to leave an hour or so afterward before letting Cyril into the same pen -- or better yet, while she?s staying here, he can use one of the other two. Baby is only here with us 1x or 2x per year. Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maribel Piloto Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 2:32 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Keep the Leuk+ guys in a separate room with their own litter box and their own scooper. Do not mix food or water and put any towels, beds, toys they use through the washing machine before using it for other cats. Washing hands all the time is not something that I normally do EXCEPT be careful about not getting any of their fluids on you (blood, urine, saliva, poop, eye/nose discharge) and then potentially getting that on your non-Leuk guys. Also - if you're keeping your Leuk guys in a separate room, make sure to block the bottom of the door so the cats can't put their paws through or smell one another and possibly sneeze on each other. You can get a piece of wood the length of the door and about 2 ft high and prop it up there with something heavy like one of those big litter pales or better yet - install some screws or other hardware on the wood around the door so you can just slide the wood in or out as you need to. Whatever you use make sure the cats can't move it because cats are very curious and they will try to move it or get through in order to see what's going on on the other side. If you regularly are going to have Leuk guys in your home either by pet sitting or rescuing them, I would get your non-Leuk guys vaccinated just as extra protection. Maribel ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorraine Johnston To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Sent: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 10:10:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christinedundas at gmail.com Fri Feb 22 14:10:37 2019 From: christinedundas at gmail.com (Christine Dundas) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 15:10:37 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> <004001d4cae1$55f32f00$01d98d00$@net> Message-ID: My advice would be to keep FeLv and non-FeLv cats separated. If you choose not to, you have to understand there is a chance the non-FeLv cats could get infected. Having said that, when my husband brought home a kitten that tested positive for FeLV, I had to make that choice. We live in a small condo with two other cats. We decided to keep her as long as she could be with us. I had my two other cats vaccinated for FeLV. They were adult cats, healthy in every way. There was no way I could keep everything and everyone separated. Our little Ruthie passed away after almost two years. My two adult cats tested negative afterwards, a few times. And are still healthy and happy. That was about four years ago. Christine On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:46 PM Amani Oakley wrote: > I had my Zander for seven years, mixed with a dozen other cats. I never > took any precautions at all. It was too late by the time we figured out he > had FeLV. No other cat ever got the infection. > > > > Amani > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *Lorraine Johnston > *Sent:* February-22-19 2:04 PM > *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? > > > > Thank you. I guess I should have phrased my question to indicate that I > was concerned about spreading FeLV to my non-FeLV cats. If I understand > correctly, your cats are, or were, all FeLV-positive, so there would not > have been any non-FeLV cats to spread it to? > > > > I told my cousin back in December that I would also keep Baby in April > when he goes way again. So now I?m trying to determine if that?s safe to > do, and what additional precautions (if any) I should take while she?s here > to avoid spread, now that we know she?s FeLV-positive. > > > > Thank you, > > > > - Lorraine > > > > "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the > things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing > > > > *From:* FeLVtalk [mailto:FeLVtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *dlgegg at windstream.net > > I have only had FELV cats but never washed my hands after handling them. > I treated all the same and have had no experience of the disease spreading > to others. I have had up to 10 at a time as all who came to my house > became part of my "pride". As they came to me, I took them to the vet for > a checkup, spay or neuter and they became mine. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Hello again, > > For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your > cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do > you have your negative cats retested every year? > > Thank you, > > - Lorraine > > "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the > things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 17:28:06 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 18:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? In-Reply-To: References: <001801d4cac0$b8084bb0$2818e310$@net> <1678694146.296322720.1550860668882.JavaMail.zimbra@windstream.net> <004001d4cae1$55f32f00$01d98d00$@net> Message-ID: <00ba01d4cb06$44124f80$cc36ee80$@net> Thank you, Christine. So far Baby has been only in the studio, completely isolated, when she visits us. It never occurred to me to do otherwise, not only because of felv but to avoid other contagious illnesses as well. It typically takes us months to merge new cats into our setting. We go very slowly to avoid stress-related illnesses and spraying. So merging Baby in with ours for just a stay of a week or two would not be worth the tumult in the whole household. It?s a luxury to be able to keep her separate and I?m grateful that I can. If I used the studio (which I don?t do when she?s here) I?d have to move her to another room because the equipment in the studio is dangerous for cats. And I agree with your approach to the kitten. Sometimes circumstances are such that they are better off together. If I had two who were very attached to each other, and one turned up positive, I would not separate them. I have a similar dilemma with our FIV kitty Cyril. He has a buddy, Micky, who is totally in love with Cyril. But Cyril had several birth defects (*) in addition to FIV, and has only one eye left. Micky plays very roughly, and I?m afraid Cyril will lose that eye to an injury. So I only allow them together when I can supervise them, and not because of the FIV. I make sure Micky gets plenty of other exercise first. I expect Micky will outgrow the roughness; he?s only 3.5 years old. * A constellation of 7 birth defects can occur together in cats, including eye defects, multiple cardio problems, undescended testes, kinked tail, and some limb abnormalities. Cyril got the eyes and the testes. But golly, he sure is cute! - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Christine Dundas Sent: Friday, February 22, 2019 3:11 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? My advice would be to keep FeLv and non-FeLv cats separated. If you choose not to, you have to understand there is a chance the non-FeLv cats could get infected. Having said that, when my husband brought home a kitten that tested positive for FeLV, I had to make that choice. We live in a small condo with two other cats. We decided to keep her as long as she could be with us. I had my two other cats vaccinated for FeLV. They were adult cats, healthy in every way. There was no way I could keep everything and everyone separated. Our little Ruthie passed away after almost two years. My two adult cats tested negative afterwards, a few times. And are still healthy and happy. That was about four years ago. Christine On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:46 PM Amani Oakley wrote: I had my Zander for seven years, mixed with a dozen other cats. I never took any precautions at all. It was too late by the time we figured out he had FeLV. No other cat ever got the infection. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorraine Johnston Sent: February-22-19 2:04 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Cleaning? Retesting? Thank you. I guess I should have phrased my question to indicate that I was concerned about spreading FeLV to my non-FeLV cats. If I understand correctly, your cats are, or were, all FeLV-positive, so there would not have been any non-FeLV cats to spread it to? I told my cousin back in December that I would also keep Baby in April when he goes way again. So now I?m trying to determine if that?s safe to do, and what additional precautions (if any) I should take while she?s here to avoid spread, now that we know she?s FeLV-positive. Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing From: FeLVtalk [mailto:FeLVtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dlgegg at windstream.net I have only had FELV cats but never washed my hands after handling them. I treated all the same and have had no experience of the disease spreading to others. I have had up to 10 at a time as all who came to my house became part of my "pride". As they came to me, I took them to the vet for a checkup, spay or neuter and they became mine. ----- Original Message ----- Hello again, For those of you who have both FELV+ and - cats, how strenuous are your cleaning efforts? For instance, do you wash hands after just petting? Do you have your negative cats retested every year? Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Fri Feb 22 17:38:37 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2019 18:38:37 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Thank you Message-ID: <00d001d4cb07$bc5b80f0$351282d0$@net> Thank you so much to everyone who has replied regarding handling Baby. The viewpoints are so useful to me and will be to my cousin as well. Thank you, - Lorraine "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gidget43 at aol.com Sat Feb 23 07:03:26 2019 From: gidget43 at aol.com (gidget43 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 13:03:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] QUESTION References: <905662991.4036503.1550927006198.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <905662991.4036503.1550927006198@mail.yahoo.com> Hello,? My girl is 4 years old and has had FeLV for 3 years.? We took in a kitten 3 years ago who tested negative for it.? The two were together after that and 6 months later, I found out the negative was false.? The kitten was actually a positive.? When I tested my other girl, she also had it.? Kitten has since passed after 3 years of living with it, but my other girl is still going strong.? I had her retested yesterday because you would just never know she has it.? It was still positive.? Could she be a carrier?? The vet was very pleased with the blood work as it was perfect.? He thought she may be a carrier.? Wanted to have your thoughts.? Although she is doing so well, should I be giving her something to help her?? Maybe to keep the immune system strong?? Thank you.?? Nancy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aoakley at oakleylegal.com Sat Feb 23 10:18:06 2019 From: aoakley at oakleylegal.com (Amani Oakley) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 16:18:06 +0000 Subject: [Felvtalk] QUESTION In-Reply-To: <905662991.4036503.1550927006198@mail.yahoo.com> References: <905662991.4036503.1550927006198.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <905662991.4036503.1550927006198@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Nancy She could definitely be a carrier. I wouldn?t be concerned as long as her blood work is okay. Keep a close eye on her gums, inside of the ears, and pads to watch for any paleness which might signify anemia. I don?t think she NEEDS any help right now, but you might consider trying her on a long course of Doxycycline to see if maybe you can eliminate the virus. I have no idea if it would work, but in the three-pronged treatment I recommend, I believe that Doxycycline is blocking viral replication of the FeLV virus. If your vet is willing, you could try the Doxycycline ? I would think at least 6 weeks ? and then wait a while and test her again for FeLV. If you give it a shot and it works, let the rest of us know. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gidget43 at aol.com Sent: February-23-19 8:03 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] QUESTION Hello, My girl is 4 years old and has had FeLV for 3 years. We took in a kitten 3 years ago who tested negative for it. The two were together after that and 6 months later, I found out the negative was false. The kitten was actually a positive. When I tested my other girl, she also had it. Kitten has since passed after 3 years of living with it, but my other girl is still going strong. I had her retested yesterday because you would just never know she has it. It was still positive. Could she be a carrier? The vet was very pleased with the blood work as it was perfect. He thought she may be a carrier. Wanted to have your thoughts. Although she is doing so well, should I be giving her something to help her? Maybe to keep the immune system strong? Thank you. Nancy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thyme2sail at gmail.com Sun Feb 24 07:31:45 2019 From: thyme2sail at gmail.com (Pam Doore) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2019 08:31:45 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro In-Reply-To: <006401d4cab4$3e303de0$ba90b9a0$@net> References: <005d01d4ca44$c3231470$49693d50$@net> <2059990301.502166.1550804015161@connect.xfinity.com> <006401d4cab4$3e303de0$ba90b9a0$@net> Message-ID: Great :-D! Have a blessed day! ~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~~@~~~~ *Christ beside me, Christ before me, Christ behind me, Christ within me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me. ? **St. Patrick* On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 8:41 AM Lorraine Johnston wrote: > Thank you. I?ve shared your info with my cousin. > > > > - Lorraine > > > > "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the > things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing > > > > *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf > Of *Amani Oakley > *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:18 PM > *To:* Sandra Wachtstetter; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro > > > > Boy I t blab a lot, don?t I? > > > > Amani > > > > *From:* Felvtalk *On Behalf Of *Sandra > Wachtstetter > *Sent:* February 21, 2019 9:54 PM > *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Baby's intro > > > > Lorraine - I am part of the group and have the following into - from Amani > - so you can see a bit more > > *From:* Amani Oakley > *Sent:* June-10-18 3:22 PM > *To:* 'felvtalk at felineleukemia.org' > *Subject:* RE: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6 > > What a very sad story about your blind cat. I understand your heart break. > I too have placed cats into what I thought were excellent homes, only to > have a sad, and an unnecessarily tragic outcome. I have probably adopted > out close to 400 cats in the time my husband and I have been rescuing cats. > Thankfully, most of the time, people are just really happy to return a cat > to me if things aren?t working out, but I know only too well that once out > of my hands, you?re at the mercy of what someone else thinks is the right > thing to do. > > Your email to FeLV talk goes out to everyone on the list at the same time. > I will often answer regarding FeLV because I was lucky enough to have > stumbled on a medication protocol (which I was calling Zander?s protocol) > which treated my Zander?s FeLV when EVERYTHING else had failed. *I used > to be a medical lab technologist, so lab results are key to me.* When > trying Zander on the various medications that were suggested as assisting > with FeLV, I got weekly bloodwork done and would study the results to see > which direction his bloodwork was going. Nothing worked at all (Interferon, > LTCI, combo of prednisone/Doxy) and I kept him alive with several blood > transfusions. When that was no longer an option because he had had a > reaction during his last blood transfusion and the next one would kill him, > I rummaged around in my drawer of cat meds, and had nothing else at all to > try but figured what the hell and tried him on Winstrol (Stanazalol) which > I thought might at least keep him eating and maybe keep him alive a bit > longer. To my complete and utter amazement and disbelief, after just a few > days on Winstrol, his ivory white gums and inner ears (signs of his > profound anemia) started showing a slight pinkish blush. The next blood > work (a few days later) showed the first uptick in hematocrit that I had > seen with him since the FeLV crisis had begun, which was not brought on by > the artificial increase in red cells from his transfusions. > > I kept him on the combination of prednisone/doxycycline/winstrol for more > than a year, while his hematocrit climbed from 10 and back into the normal > reference range of 25 to 45. Every time I tried to stop or reduce the > dosage of winstrol, his blood results would show an immediate drop in red > cells and hematocrit, so even though his liver enzymes went way up (the > reason Winstrol had fallen out of favour with the vets), I really had no > choice but to continue since the vets had nothing else to offer me and the > alternative was he was going to die from the FeLV infection. He recovered > fully, looked marvelous and amazing, ate well, and his liver enzymes went > right back to normal once I discontinued the Winstrol ? something like 10 > months later. > > No one seemed to know this combination, and the vets I spoke with seemed > wary or suspicious that this combination would indeed be helpful in FeLV > (except mine ? who had of course seen the weekly blood work showing a slow > and steady rise in red cells and ultimately, in white cells and platelets, > until his entire hematological profile looked perfectly fine). At the time, > I was understandably extremely excited by the effects of the Winstrol and I > believe that the Winstrol was able to cause the production of new bone > marrow cells (something it has been found to do in osteoporotic women) and > thus, new cells which could produce the red cells. *However, I now also > think that the combination worked because the Doxycycline was able to > retard or slow down the viral replication, to allow the red cell production > to move ahead with less risk that the FeLV would attack the new bone marrow > cells. I have been told that the prednisone helps protect the liver from > the Winstrol, but I also think that it?s anti-inflammatory properties > helped in areas like intestinal inflammation (Zander had lots of trouble > eating and keeping the food down). So, I think maybe I by accident stumbled > on this combination but was able to understand what might be happening and > why it might have worked, because of my scientific/medical training.* > > Zander lived another 7 years and died from a heart condition which I > wondered at the time if it was related, and it might have been, but it > probably was that the virus had done a fair amount of damage to certain > organs before I was able to get it under control. We loved Zander to a > crazy extent, and I wanted him with us for longer than 7 years but given > that the vets were telling us there was no hope when he was only six months > old, I guess I must just be grateful that we had him for so much longer > than that. > > Amani > > On February 21, 2019 at 9:40 PM Amani Oakley > wrote: > > Hi Lorraine > > > > What I have suggested to many in this group, for treatment of FeLV, is the > following combination of medications: > > > > Winstrol (Stanazolol) ? 1 mg twice a day > > Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day > > Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day > > If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation, slow > moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be indicative > of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try adding ? tablet > of apometocloprimide. > > If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you might > consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week, to try and > kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to be a likely > increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol, recognize that this > might also increase the liver enzymes faster. > > > > Lorraine, you will very likely encounter great resistance or skepticism > regarding the use of the Winstrol. It is an anabolic steroid, associated > with some doping scandals in professional athletics, so it has a bad rap in > the sports world. I haven?t yet figures out why this should matter in the > animal world, especially since NOTHING else works to turn back on the red > cell production in FeLV, but I am just warning you that you may get an > unexpected reaction from the vet. If not, terrific ? carry on. If you do, > many people in this online group have managed to procure it themselves. > > I also suggest blood work up front, so you can gauge how well the Winstrol > is working to address the anemia. The other thing to resist, however, is > that Winstrol may well bump up liver enzymes ? sometimes dramatically. Vets > will get alarmed at this and will often tell you to discontinue the > Winstrol, but I would resist this. The liver enzymes almost always go back > to normal once the Winstrol is discontinued, with no lasting harm to the > liver, and there is really nothing else to use for this disease. > > How long you need to stay on this regimen will depend on the lab results. > Once the anemia is resolved (haematocrit, haemoglobin and reticulocytes > back to normal) you may need to continue with the Winstrol for a more time. > My experience was that every time I wanted to wean my cat off the Winstrol, > his haematocrit would immediately drop. I kept him on the Winstrol until I > didn?t see a drop in haematocrit when I began to wean him off. My cat?s > results were horrible, before starting the Winstrol. (His haematocrit was > FIVE, with ZERO percent reticulocytes, and I had given him several blood > transfusions, which obviously were only a temporary fix.) > > I hope this helps. > > Amani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Felvtalk *On Behalf Of *Lorraine > Johnston > *Sent:* February 21, 2019 7:23 PM > *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Baby's intro > > > > Hello, > > I?m a new member. While caring for my cousin?s cat Baby here in my home > during his 2-week vacation in Mexico, we had bloodwork done ahead of the > dental cleaning that my husband and I agreed to have done for her. She > turned up positive for FeLeuk on ELISA, IFA, and PCR--the triple whammy. > She?s already slightly anemic. > > Baby was first vaccinated against FeLV in Jan. 2018 before her first-ever > stay with us. But the booster due at week 3-4 was missed. This was > followed by a bite puncture in Dec. 2018. So I suspect that first vaccine > was worn off by the time of the bite. > > Baby is 11 and in otherwise good health, so I hope there?s a good chance > she?ll still live her ?normal span? --and perhaps even die of something > unrelated. But the anemia is not a good sign, I?m told. > > I am putting together information for my cousin to try to take the edge > off of the terrible shock this will give him. I?m of course including > cautions about keeping her indoors, etc., and following up on any symptoms, > etc. I hope to put off telling him until just before he flies back to the > US. > > I suspect my cousin would prefer treatments that are oral as opposed to > IV. But his wife is trained as a nurse, so perhaps they would be willing to > try difficult-to-administer treatments. I?m not sure how much room their > budget has for expensive, imported treatments like feline interferon omega. > > On general principles: in our home, Baby has been kept entirely separate > from our own six cats, who are vaccinated against FeLV except for one > little guy who has FIV whom we avoid over-vaccinating. We have always > hand-washed after handling Baby or her dishes, even prior to this > diagnostic info. > > I think I?ve drawn the complete picture, but please ask if I?ve left out > something important. > > FWIW, I have a degree in biology and am a medical writer, so I don?t scare > easy, and I understand big words...mostly. (-: > > > > - Lorraine > > > > "Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the > things no one can imagine." - Alan Turing > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gidget43 at aol.com Mon Feb 25 09:58:24 2019 From: gidget43 at aol.com (gidget43 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 15:58:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Felvtalk] QUESTION References: <1415620984.4849111.1551110304347.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1415620984.4849111.1551110304347@mail.yahoo.com> Thank you for replying.? I will continue to keep a very close watch on her. Nancy -----Original Message----- From: Amani Oakley To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2019 11:18 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] QUESTION #yiv8834176863 #yiv8834176863 -- _filtered #yiv8834176863 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8834176863 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv8834176863 #yiv8834176863 p.yiv8834176863MsoNormal, #yiv8834176863 li.yiv8834176863MsoNormal, #yiv8834176863 div.yiv8834176863MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;} #yiv8834176863 a:link, #yiv8834176863 span.yiv8834176863MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv8834176863 a:visited, #yiv8834176863 span.yiv8834176863MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv8834176863 span.yiv8834176863EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv8834176863 .yiv8834176863MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv8834176863 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv8834176863 div.yiv8834176863WordSection1 {} #yiv8834176863 Hi Nancy ? She could definitely be a carrier. I wouldn?t be concerned as long as her blood work is okay. Keep a close eye on her gums, inside of the ears, and pads to watch for any paleness which might signify anemia. ? I don?t think she NEEDS any help right now, but you might consider trying her on a long course of Doxycycline to see if maybe you can eliminate the virus. I have no idea if it would work, but in the three-pronged treatment I recommend, I believe that Doxycycline is blocking viral replication of the FeLV virus. If your vet is willing, you could try the Doxycycline ? I would think at least 6 weeks ? and then wait a while and test her again for FeLV. If you give it a shot and it works, let the rest of us know. ? Amani ? From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org]On Behalf Of gidget43 at aol.com Sent: February-23-19 8:03 AM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] QUESTION ? Hello,? My girl is 4 years old and has had FeLV for 3 years.? We took in a kitten 3 years ago who tested negative for it.? The two were together after that and 6 months later, I found out the negative was false.? The kitten was actually a positive.? When I tested my other girl, she also had it.? Kitten has since passed after 3 years of living with it, but my other girl is still going strong.? I had her retested yesterday because you would just never know she has it.? It was still positive.? Could she be a carrier?? The vet was very pleased with the blood work as it was perfect.? He thought she may be a carrier.? Wanted to have your thoughts.? Although she is doing so well, should I be giving her something to help her?? Maybe to keep the immune system strong?? Thank you.?? ? Nancy _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnston1110 at comcast.net Thu Feb 28 12:01:45 2019 From: johnston1110 at comcast.net (Lorraine Johnston) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 13:01:45 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] resending: ?prices for raltegravir and generic Truvada? Message-ID: <002d01d4cf8f$b0f49940$12ddcbc0$@net> Hello, Has anyone found especially good U.S. or Canadian prices for the antiretrovirals raltegravir and generic Truvada? Thank you, - Lorraine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thyme2sail at gmail.com Thu Feb 28 15:01:31 2019 From: thyme2sail at gmail.com (Pam Doore) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 16:01:31 -0500 Subject: [Felvtalk] resending: ?prices for raltegravir and generic Truvada? In-Reply-To: <002d01d4cf8f$b0f49940$12ddcbc0$@net> References: <002d01d4cf8f$b0f49940$12ddcbc0$@net> Message-ID: I have not but you might talk to a compounding pharmacy in your area to get a cost idea. I recommended a compounding pharmacy because they tend me to be better able to get meds because of their ability to make them. Also Vets First Choice is an online pharmacy that compounds. They may need to be associated with your vet''s practice. On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:02 PM Lorraine Johnston wrote: > Hello, > > > > Has anyone found especially good U.S. or Canadian prices for the > antiretrovirals raltegravir and generic Truvada? > > > > Thank you, > > > > - Lorraine > > > _______________________________________________ > Felvtalk mailing list > Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org > http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ardyr at centurytel.net Thu Feb 28 22:20:26 2019 From: ardyr at centurytel.net (Ardy Robertson) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 22:20:26 -0600 Subject: [Felvtalk] resending: ?prices for raltegravir and generic Truvada? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01d4cf8f$b0f49940$12ddcbc0$@net> Message-ID: <003101d4cfe6$19d11eb0$4d735c10$@centurytel.net> Another online compounding pharmacy I have used and liked, is Diamond Back Drugs in Arizona. Ardy Robertson From: Felvtalk On Behalf Of Pam Doore Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2019 3:02 PM To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] resending: ?prices for raltegravir and generic Truvada? I have not but you might talk to a compounding pharmacy in your area to get a cost idea. I recommended a compounding pharmacy because they tend me to be better able to get meds because of their ability to make them. Also Vets First Choice is an online pharmacy that compounds. They may need to be associated with your vet''s practice. On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:02 PM Lorraine Johnston > wrote: Hello, Has anyone found especially good U.S. or Canadian prices for the antiretrovirals raltegravir and generic Truvada? Thank you, - Lorraine _______________________________________________ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: