[Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.

Thu Oct 18 17:39:29 CDT 2018

Thanks Amani.  I agree with you.  

Shelley 

> On Oct 18, 2018, at 6:34 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Shelley. Thanks for clarifying. I really didn’t know that prednisolone could have negative effects on the heart. However, I have had the experience of a cat with a heart murmur. Eventually, after we had looked after her for a while, the heart murmur disappeared.
>  
> However, if your cat pants after playing for a while, you are right that one of the reasons may well be heart issues.
>  
> You obviously have a terrific heart to take in a feral like that and keep him when you found he was positive. What a nice person.
>  
> Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, though, again, I kinda feel that in some circumstances like FeLV, whether there are potential side-effects from some of the meds, there are few choices and I would probably take the risk if my cat was doing poorly (as mine was). Thank you though for that information, which I definitely did not know. I will have to keep it in mind.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
> Sent: October 18, 2018 6:27 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Amani,
>  
> I was speaking about corticosteroids- Prednisone or Prednisolone.  Sorry for any confusion.
> I have a cat, Jack, with heart disease who also has IBD so he cannot have steroids.
> I believe there is one, which is called Budesonide?  that might act more locally in the intestines so 
> it could be a bit safer if a cat has heart disease.  
>  
> My FeLV positive cat Leo, who became sick quickly back in 2014, was diagnosed with both Lymphoma and 
> leukemia, his WBC count was through the roof, in the 150,000’s??  I would have to go back and look at the notes.
> He was @ 5 years old. I trapped him in a neighbor’s yard to TNR, but 
> he tested positive so I kept him. Anyway, after the vet visit, for mainly inappetence, he went downhill
> very quickly and I thought the stress of the visit, x-rays, fluids, and pred. might have sent him into heart failure too.
> That was a guess on my part.  He was an adult feral that I tamed once he tested positive for FeLV, and he was so afraid 
> out of his environment that I never took him to get an echo.  I only suspected it as a possibility because he 
> had a murmur when he was neutered, though not later, and would pant when playing too much with feather toy.
> Something I will never know and it has always eaten away at me.
>  
> I am not in this group much anymore, but read the messages, and just wanted to mention to Katy, just in case.
> Hopefully not that.
>  
> Shelley 
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> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 4:59 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com <mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
>  
> Sorry Shelley – my email below should have read IT ISN”T prednisolone. . . 
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:57 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Shelley. Are you speaking about anabolic steroids or corticosteroids? And what type in particular? I think that there may be a particular steroid which has been linked with heart issues sometimes but it is prednisolone (which is a corticosteroid) and it isn’t Winstrol (which is an anabolic steroid).
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of Shelley Theye
> Sent: October 18, 2018 4:29 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hi Katy,
>  
> So sorry that Batman is going through this!
>  
> Did they look at Batman’s heart while he was at the vet hospital?  Specifically did they do an echocardiogram?  I am guessing that they had no reason to with his initial symptoms so they probably didn’t?
>  
> Maybe he has heart disease that the steroids have exacerbated... Young cats can have it and not have any outward symptoms.  Steroids are contraindicated with heart problems.  I think there is one type that can be used, but it is not usually given first.  
>  
> Just throwing this out there just in case.  Steroids could hurt his heart if he has undiagnosed heart problem and maybe cause him to act like.
> Not to scare you, just to get him treated for it if it is that.
>  
> Shelley   
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 3:27 PM, Katy Brown <ktbrown15 at gmail.com <mailto:ktbrown15 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
> Amani,
> That is very insightful. I’m not convinced he has lymphoma because his decline was so rapid. Within hours he went from walking to having completely rigid legs. And today he is starting to decline. I’m wondering if there is something else I can give him besides the 5 mg of Prednisolone and the Clindamycin.
> The vet said he he keeps declining we could do another form of Chemo which is very aggressive and has other side affects and would be a Hail Mary to buy him another few days? 
> I’m just not convinced he has cancer. Even though he is FeLV positive he is young to develop a cancer? 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 18, 2018, at 12:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com <mailto:aoakley at oakleylegalcom>> wrote:
> 
> I actually had a few similar experiences. Once it involved two very young kittens. Once it involved a cat about a year old. In my opinion, the two different experiences had two different causative agents, and at the risk of boring you silly, I will try to explain both. Neither, by the way, was well understood by the vets, leading me again to the inevitable conclusion that cat health is very poorly studied (no where near dog health) and because cats respond different to disease and medication, (whereas dogs respond very much like people), then science and medicine is way behind in understanding cats.
>  
> With respect to the kittens, it was my view that they actually had (and one of them still has) Lyme disease. The area I picked them up was one very well-known to be endemic for Lyme disease. They had an alternating lameness – once picking up one paw which seemed very swollen and sore – and then next day, picking up the other paw. I looked this up and saw that this alternating lameness was described in dogs with Lyme disease. However, my vet believed that it might be calici virus. I didn’t agree with her, but let her treat for calici virus (including vaccination). The acute phase of the response seemed to be limited in time, and both kittens seemed to get better on their own. However, their brother lapsed into a coma – was literally unresponsive for hours while I sat up with him. I didn’t know what to do, and my view was that either there was inflammation of the meninges (sac surrounding the brain) or an inflammation of the brain itself, causing increased intracranial pressure which might also result in loss of consciousness. I superdosed him with transdermal prednisone, took him to bed with me and kept checking him for hours. Then, suddenly, at about 4 in the morning, he just bounded awake, and began playing and galavanting all over the bed. Meanwhile, though, one of his two sisters has never been the same. She lost HUGE amounts of weight, and even now, as a 2+ year old cat, she weighs less than many kittens and she is all bones. I have been treating her with a combination of Winstrol, Doxycycline, high prednisone doses and magnesium (her muscles don’t work right – like they are constantly spastic, and she walks in a funny tip toe way, and has poor coordination jumping on things and going up stairs, etc.) Anyhow, she is starting to get better, starting to put on weight and starting to walk better. I am convinced this was and is Lyme disease, though scientists and vets say that cats don’t get it. I don’t know how they know this, because they DO NOT TEST cats for it.
>  
> Story number two involves a kitten I got who was described as a “wobbly” kitten and it was assumed that his mom had suffered a viral infection when he was in utero, which can result in this type of neurological damage (and it can be much worse). However, when he was very little, he suddenly and without warning, decided to squat and pee right in the middle of our bed, and he had never done this before. He was looking straight at me and I felt that he didn’t know why he was doing what he was doing. Not too long after (a few weeks or maybe a month), he started showing some very alarming neurological symptoms, including a loss of muscle control in the back end. His rectum seemed not tight but loose and stool just “fell out” rather than being pushed out. His back legs in particular also became very very weak, and he developed a “tripod stance” – both back legs together – his back end would sway and he would fall down. My knowledge with humans is that this occurs when there is damage to nerves in the spinal column, or pressure on them from a herniated disc, or something like that (cauda equina syndrome). I took him to the emergency clinic, but I had already started him on Winstrol and Prednisolone, assuming that the Prednisolone would help with reduction of swelling in the spinal canal and thus take pressure off the affected nerves, and the Winstrol might help in healing whatever injury there was in the spinal column. By the time they could do an MRI on him, he was regaining all function and his gait had become normal. The MRI was inconclusive, with the vets thinking that they could possible see the remains of a lesion, right in the area where one would expect it to be to affect rectal control and muscle function of the back legs, but the lesion appeared to be healed over so they couldn’t tell if that was the cause or if the lesion was old or new.  
>  
> It sounds to me like the prednisone you used in your case, has a similar effect. There was swelling somewhere, likely in the spinal column as you surmise, and the prednisone helped bring down the swelling.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>> On Behalf Of katy brown
> Sent: October 18, 2018 12:21 PM
> To: Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Batman Felv Positive Having Neurological issues.
>  
> Hello,
> I have an amazing cat named Batman who a year ago as a kitten tested positive for FelV. His brother also texted positive, after 2 other tests later on after the antibodies from the mother had cleared, Batman still tested positive while his brother was negative.
>  
> Fast forward a year and both of them were doing great I was away on vacation and left them with a full time cat sitter, who notice about a week ago that Batman was not going up stairs as much, but we figured this could be to him just adjusting to a new person in his home. When I arrived back home I immediately noticed he was not moving well and as the day progressed he was losing more mobility in his front paws. I took him to the emergency room where they thought he had experienced a trauma, and discharged him with 2 types of pain meds. The pain meds were a disaster, and he lost further mobility. From there we took him to Pennsylvania Vet. Hospital, which is supposed to be one of the best in the country, they realized he was having neurological issues, did a bunch of testing, his vitals and blood work were all good. An x-ray revealed no masses in his chest or spine. At this point they felt it was a cancer in his column, most likely lymphoma. The Vet thought that he was quite young even given his FeLV positive status to have lymphoma, but given how fast he was becoming completely paralyzed, there were not many other diagnosis that fit the bill. The vet started him on Prednisolone and Clindamycin, and within hours he regained movement in his legs and was walking again. Yesterday he was jumping and scratching on his post again, and eating and drinking. Last night his behavior changed and he kept trying to hide which is very unlike him, however I thought that maybe he was just tired, he had gone from completely paralyzed to jumping in 3 days. But this morning it was apparent that he was not ok, he did eat after much encouragement, but has moved very very little. I have called the Vet and am waiting to hear back but I'm not optimistic. Has anyone had this experience? I don't want to put him down if there is a chance he could come back but he is hardly moving and seems like him trying to hide was him trying to find a place to pass away quietly. Batman is so young and he is the sweetest cat I have ever owned, and his brother can't get along with out him.  I will try anything to keep him alive but I want him to have a good quality life. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>  
> Also I apologize if I did not use this forum correctly. I wasn't sure if I emailed the group or how it works so I hope this does work.
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