[Felvtalk] Reconstituted Doxy

Sun May 13 17:25:54 CDT 2018

We usually  givery Doxycycline liquid at the shelter. If given in pill form
water has to be forced down throat as well because of issues with damage to
esophagus.

I have never heard of doxy as a chewy treat. That is great. My default is
transdermal :-).

On Sun, May 13, 2018, 2:22 PM ROBERT CHAPEL <bchapel at optonline.net> wrote:

> My recollection re: the stand against Doxy Tabs is that they are often
> large and hard to get all the way down the cats throat without getting
> stuck....   I DO apologize that it's been so long since I was giving my
> cats Doxy in pill form successfully( had found a coated small pill)....
> but... if you can afford it ...diamondback drugs can formulate tasty
> chewies with Doxy that many cats love ( mine ate them down with relish)
> Believe Sandy might be able to weigh in on this??.... Don't have
> experience with liquid form... but be assured there iis always a way a
> drug can be administered to a cat... if one has the time, ability and
> funds....   The chewies are not cheap....
>
> Bob in Warwick NY
>
>
>  On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 01:44 AM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
> wrote:
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: Anemia and Aranesp (Maribel Piloto)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 01:43:43 -0400
> > From: Maribel Piloto
>
> > To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
> > Message-ID: <4371704D-888F-47A3-9163-24187C4939E8 at bellsouth.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi Amani and everyone else who?s been helping me with this post - I
> > shared the recommended drug protocol with a friend of mine who isn?t a
> > vet but has worked for years in animal rescue and has also worked at
> > both the local Humane Society and the local county shelter.  She also
> > attends a lot of vet conferences.  She sent me the following...
> >
> >> If your vet is willing to prescribe this regimen, I'd give it a try
> >> with one CRITICAL CHANGE.  NEVER use doxycycline tablets/capsules
> >> with cats as doxy can cause esophageal strictures.  You can get
> >> compounded doxycycline is 50 mg/ml, so dose would be 0.4 - 0.5 ml
> >> twice a day.
> >
> > Do you foresee any issues with using the Doxy in liquid format?   I
> > also wanted to get the Prednisolone in liquid as Flaqui is very
> > difficult to pill.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Maribel
> > "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
> > treated."
> > -Mohandas Ghandi
> >
> >> On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley  wrote:
> >>
> >> Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so
> >> very often now.
> >>  Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the
> >> effects of erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because
> >> erythropoietin tells the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With
> >> FeLV, it infects the cells in the bone marrow which produce all three
> >> cell lines (red cells, white cells, platelets). The cells are taken
> >> over and destroyed by the virus, which means that the bone marrow can
> >> no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or platelets. The
> >> erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and telling them
> >> to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no longer
> >> do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the
> >> very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES,
> >> etc.) and AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood transfusions,
> >> the Winstrol turned back on the bone marrow and he began producing
> >> red cells, white cells and platelets again.
> >>  Amani
> >>  From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Sandy
> >> Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
> >> To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
> >>  This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but
> >> your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this
> >> will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose -
> >> BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will
> >> probably get more responses - Sandy W
> >>
> >>
> >> Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day
> >>
> >> Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day
> >>
> >> Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day
> >>
> >> If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation,
> >> slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be
> >> indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try
> >> adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide.
> >>
> >> If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you
> >> might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week,
> >> to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to
> >> be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol,
> >> recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster.
> >>
> >>  Hope this helps! Amani
> >>
> >>
> >>  From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On
> >> Behalf Of gary
> >> Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
> >> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
> >>
> >>  Amani,
> >>
> >> Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know
> >> they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.
> >>
> >> Thanks,   Gary
> >>
> >>  On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Sherri
> >>
> >> I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my
> >> experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the
> >> red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use
> >> of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol
> >> does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger
> >> overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment
> >> regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and
> >> reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising.
> >>
> >> Amani
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Felvtalk mailing list
> >> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >>
> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >>
> >> Hi Liz
> >>
> >> The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is
> >> Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most
> >> steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a
> >> corticosteroid.
> >>
> >> Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.
> >>
> >> Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on
> >> right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to
> >> slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by
> >> interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping
> >> inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red
> >> cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow
> >> and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least
> >> it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several
> >> people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw
> >> almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats?
> >> gums/ears/pads pinkening up.
> >>
> >> The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is
> >> also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and
> >> faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the
> >> Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on
> >> its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is
> >> the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema
> >> and anemia.
> >>
> >> Here is a blurb I found about it:
> >>
> >> Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based
> >> Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later,
> >> in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that
> >> started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets.
> >>
> >> In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons.
> >> But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only
> >> promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a
> >> termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American
> >> market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only
> >> survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its
> >> use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to
> >> boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial
> >> swelling or angioedema.
> >>
> >> When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation
> >> Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003.
> >> However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so
> >> the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are
> >> only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however,
> >> several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol.
> >>
> >> Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because
> >> it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These
> >> particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed
> >> for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color.
> >>
> >> Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses
> >> as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in
> >> order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate
> >> appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used
> >> to dope horses in US horse races.
> >>
> >> If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from
> >> a compounding pharmacy.
> >>
> >> The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in
> >> poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times
> >> a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose.
> >>
> >> Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver
> >> damage.
> >>
> >> The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably
> >> result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is
> >> directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may
> >> not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you
> >> are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct
> >> attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the
> >> interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages
> >> to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try
> >> and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then
> >> MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells
> >> in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again.
> >> Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I
> >> have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor
> >> cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also
> >> works to enhance the production of bone cells (effe
> >  ctive against osteoporosis).
> >>
> >> The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only
> >> information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly
> >> designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses
> >> found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were
> >> given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than
> >> 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study
> >> which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage.
> >> And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the
> >> cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.)
> >> and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol
> >> was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I
> >> refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up,
> >> because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I
> >> kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were
> >> in a normal range. During that ten month per
> >  iod, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells
> > would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was
> > the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol
> > pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went
> > right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO
> > lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a
> > nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up
> > and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at
> > the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I
> > weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off
> > the Winstrol.
> >>
> >> Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the
> >> prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the
> >> Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline.
> >>
> >> Amani
> >>
> >> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
> >> Of Liz McCarty
> >> Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM
> >> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >> Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
> >>
> >>  Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a
> >> cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he
> >> seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was
> >> red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely
> >> anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and
> >> rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an
> >> FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra
> >> tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and
> >> persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which
> >> was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was
> >> going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We
> >> went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks
> >> now. They had him on doxycycline  in case there was a bacterial
> >> cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone
> >> have experience with that and know if it was effective?
> >  I also started him on Pet Tinic.   Any other suggestions? Any insight
> > into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't
> > have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone
> > marrow.  I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they
> > are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated.
> > She's not FeLV positive.
> >>
> >> Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we
> >> incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is
> >> interested.  http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk
> >>
> >> Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance.
> >>
> >> Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438
> >>
> >> On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto
>   wrote:
> >>
> >>   Hi all,
> >>  I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic.  Her name is Flaqui.
> >> She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago
> >> (already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat
> >> with not much time left so I took her home to give her some comfort
> >> in her final days.  When I took her to the vet it turned out that she
> >> isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+.   I decided to keep
> >> her in my room where I have another Leuk+ guy.  I'm building a little
> >> catio for them outside one of the bedroom windows so they can enjoy
> >> the outside.
> >>  Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were...
> >>  RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
> >> HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW
> >> HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
> >> MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0)
> >> MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0)
> >> MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5)
> >> RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0)
> >> %RETIC - 1.3%
> >> RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH
> >> WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50)
> >> EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH
> >> PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600)
> >> Everything else was normal
> >>  I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron
> >> and B-12 among other things.  Also giving her Vetri-DMG.   She
> >> initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with
> >> Metronidazole.  She's also been dewormed and got Revolution.
> >> Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing
> >> weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork done again.  Here
> >> are the results...
> >>  RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
> >> HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW
> >> HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
> >> MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW
> >> MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH
> >> MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5)
> >> RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0)
> >> %RETIC - 1.1%
> >> RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0)
> >> WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH
> >> NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH
> >> PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH
> >> Everything else was normal
> >>  My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell
> >> count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere.  I was
> >> really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic
> >> renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT
> >> numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous.   With that cat,
> >> Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia.  He
> >> eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his
> >> anemia at bay.
> >>  I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to
> >> do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood
> >> transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I
> >> manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home with medical needs
> >> including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I
> >> just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui.
> >>  Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?
> >> She does not have kidney problems.  However, based on the
> >> reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have  non-regenerative anaemia.
> >> I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic
> >> Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be
> >> adjusted based on PCV...
> >>  In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in
> >> percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of
> >> anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as
> >> many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%.
> >>  Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte
> >> count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then
> >> divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many
> >> laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of
> >> 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration.
> >>  In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte
> >> count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also
> >> indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the
> >> corrected value, the lower the regenerative response).
> >>  Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35
> >> = .46 which indicates non-regeneration.
> >>  Any help would be appreciated.  Flaqui has been doing better the
> >> last couple of days.  I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish
> >> I could improve those HCT numbers.
> >>  Maribel & Flaqui.
> >>  "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
> >> treated."
> >> -Mohandas Ghandi
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> >>
> >> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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