[Felvtalk] Reconstituted Doxy
ROBERT CHAPEL
bchapel at optonline.net
Sun May 13 13:21:50 CDT 2018
My recollection re: the stand against Doxy Tabs is that they are often
large and hard to get all the way down the cats throat without getting
stuck.... I DO apologize that it's been so long since I was giving my
cats Doxy in pill form successfully( had found a coated small pill)....
but... if you can afford it ...diamondback drugs can formulate tasty
chewies with Doxy that many cats love ( mine ate them down with relish)
Believe Sandy might be able to weigh in on this??.... Don't have
experience with liquid form... but be assured there iis always a way a
drug can be administered to a cat... if one has the time, ability and
funds.... The chewies are not cheap....
Bob in Warwick NY
On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 01:44 AM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
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> 1. Re: Anemia and Aranesp (Maribel Piloto)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 13 May 2018 01:43:43 -0400
> From: Maribel Piloto
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
> Message-ID: <4371704D-888F-47A3-9163-24187C4939E8 at bellsouth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Amani and everyone else who?s been helping me with this post - I
> shared the recommended drug protocol with a friend of mine who isn?t a
> vet but has worked for years in animal rescue and has also worked at
> both the local Humane Society and the local county shelter. She also
> attends a lot of vet conferences. She sent me the following...
>
>> If your vet is willing to prescribe this regimen, I'd give it a try
>> with one CRITICAL CHANGE. NEVER use doxycycline tablets/capsules
>> with cats as doxy can cause esophageal strictures. You can get
>> compounded doxycycline is 50 mg/ml, so dose would be 0.4 - 0.5 ml
>> twice a day.
>
> Do you foresee any issues with using the Doxy in liquid format? I
> also wanted to get the Prednisolone in liquid as Flaqui is very
> difficult to pill.
>
> Thanks
> Maribel
> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
> treated."
> -Mohandas Ghandi
>
>> On May 10, 2018, at 11:02 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Sandy. You saved me from repeating what I have posted so
>> very often now.
>> Mirabel, regarding the Aranesp, it is a product which mimics the
>> effects of erythropoietin. I do not believe it will assist because
>> erythropoietin tells the bone marrow to produce more red cells. With
>> FeLV, it infects the cells in the bone marrow which produce all three
>> cell lines (red cells, white cells, platelets). The cells are taken
>> over and destroyed by the virus, which means that the bone marrow can
>> no longer produce red cells, white cells and/or platelets. The
>> erythropoietin or Aranesp is speaking to these cells and telling them
>> to churn out more red cells, but the bone marrow cells can no longer
>> do that. My experience with the Winstrol is that after my cat had the
>> very worst results (HAEMATOCRIT OF FIVE!!!, ZERO % RETICULOCYTES,
>> etc.) and AFTER I had given him several bouts of blood transfusions,
>> the Winstrol turned back on the bone marrow and he began producing
>> red cells, white cells and platelets again.
>> Amani
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On
>> Behalf Of Sandy
>> Sent: May-10-18 8:48 PM
>> To: Maribel Piloto; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Anemia and Aranesp
>> This is long because I just copied this whole conversation - but
>> your answer lies in this combination of drugs - make no mistake this
>> will work if your vet will give it a try - there is nothing to lose -
>> BUT you and the vet need to act immediately. - good luck. You will
>> probably get more responses - Sandy W
>>
>>
>> Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day
>>
>> Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day
>>
>> Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day
>>
>> If there are problems with the intestines (vomiting, constipation,
>> slow moving stools, stools of large diameters, all of which might be
>> indicative of the effect of the virus on the intestines) you can try
>> adding ? tablet of apometocloprimide.
>>
>> If the haematocrit level is REALLY REALLY low ? like below 5-8, you
>> might consider starting the Winstrol at 2 mg twice a day for a week,
>> to try and kickstart things quickly, but given that there is going to
>> be a likely increase in liver enzymes with the use of Winstrol,
>> recognize that this might also increase the liver enzymes faster.
>>
>> Hope this helps! Amani
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On
>> Behalf Of gary
>> Sent: January-27-17 4:04 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
>>
>> Amani,
>>
>> Could you please give the dosages used for Zander's Protocol? I know
>> they must have been previously given, but I cannot seem to find them.
>>
>> Thanks, Gary
>>
>> On 9/16/2016 8:52 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sherri
>>
>> I hope you got some good news today. However, as you know, my
>> experience is that the Winstrol needs to be used long term before the
>> red cells are back into the normal range. I continue to recommend use
>> of the Doxycyline to interfere with viral RNA synthesis. The Winstrol
>> does not attack the virus, though I believe it makes the cat stronger
>> overall and able to fight back. But at the outset of the treatment
>> regime, I believe you must have the Doxycycline on board to try and
>> reduce the viral load, or at least, keep it from rising.
>>
>> Amani
>>
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>>
>> Hi Liz
>>
>> The only thing that works to turn back on red cell production is
>> Winstrol (Stanazolol). It is an ANABOLIC steroid (as opposed to most
>> steroids we are used to getting, like prednisone, which is a
>> corticosteroid.
>>
>> Anabolic steroids are ones which build muscle, tissue, etc.
>>
>> Adding Winstrol to the combination of medication you have your cat on
>> right now, would be the best thing to do. The Doxycycline acts to
>> slow down or inhibit the reproduction of the FeLV virus by
>> interfering the RNA duplication. The prednisone is helpful in keeping
>> inflammation at bay, but neither of these helps to increase the red
>> cells. The Winstrol acts directly and very quickly on the bone marrow
>> and seems to get red cells generated again, quite promptly. At least
>> it did for my Zander, and I have been contacted directly by several
>> people from this group, who have reported to me that they also saw
>> almost immediate (within 3 days) evidence of their cats?
>> gums/ears/pads pinkening up.
>>
>> The problem is that Winstrol is a controversial drug because it is
>> also what professional athletes use to get bigger, stronger and
>> faster. Quite unfortunately (since none of our cats are entering the
>> Olympics) that association with doping scandals has cast a shadow on
>> its use in both animal and people medicine. In human medicine, it is
>> the only drug found to be effective in treating hereditary angioedema
>> and anemia.
>>
>> Here is a blurb I found about it:
>>
>> Winstrol was first invented in 1959. Soon after that, the UK based
>> Winthrop Laboratories created a prescription medicine from it. Later,
>> in 1961, Winthrop?s patent was bought by the US based Sterling that
>> started manufacturing and selling the drug in the American markets.
>>
>> In the beginning, Winstrol was used for a variety of medical reasons.
>> But later, by the 1970s, the FDA had restricted its use to only
>> promoting growth and treating osteoporosis. In the 1980s, there was a
>> termination of the manufacture of anabolic steroids in the American
>> market. But Winstrol was among those steroids which not only
>> survived, but thrived in the 1980s and 1990s. During this period, its
>> use was reinforced as a cure for anemia ? as it had the power to
>> boost red blood cell count, and was used as a treatment for facial
>> swelling or angioedema.
>>
>> When the manufacture of Winstrol was finally discontinued, Ovation
>> Pharmaceuticals bought the rights to manufacture it, in 2003.
>> However, Ovation Pharmaceuticals have ceased their operations now, so
>> the Winstrol products available today in the American markets are
>> only generic and not pharmaceutical grade. Outside the USA, however,
>> several large brands still manufacture and sell Winstrol.
>>
>> Genuine Stanozolol can be distinguished in water suspensions because
>> it separates from the liquid into micrometer particles. These
>> particles will fall to the bottom if the container is not disturbed
>> for a few hours. The crystals have a milky white color.
>>
>> Winstrol can not only be used for humans, but it has veterinary uses
>> as well. Weakened or injured animals can be treated with Winstrol in
>> order to promote red blood cell count, strengthen bones, stimulate
>> appetite, and enhance muscle growth. It has also reportedly been used
>> to dope horses in US horse races.
>>
>> If your vet is willing to try this, he/she will need to order it from
>> a compounding pharmacy.
>>
>> The dose should be 1 mg 2 times a day for a cat. If your cat is in
>> poor shape and needs an immediate boost, start him on 2 mg x 2 times
>> a day for a week or so, and then drop down to the lower dose.
>>
>> Your vet will undoubtedly say that Winstrol is known to cause liver
>> damage.
>>
>> The first answer to this is, so what? FeLV will almost invariably
>> result in the premature death of cats. The vets have nothing which is
>> directly effective to fight FeLV. Things like Interferon may or may
>> not assist but such a treatment is again a side treatment where you
>> are hoping to boost your cat?s immune system, rather than a direct
>> attack on the virus. It is also quite indirect in that IF the
>> interferon helps, it will be more long term, and only if it manages
>> to boost the immune system enough to permit your cat?s system to try
>> and fight the virus, and when/if the virus is inhibited enough, then
>> MAYBE (if the virus hasn?t already destroyed all the progenitor cells
>> in the bone marrow) will red cell production begin to climb again.
>> Winstrol is the only medication that I know of, (and believe me, I
>> have looked!) that seems to work by turning back on those progenitor
>> cells or possibly promoting the growth of new ones since it also
>> works to enhance the production of bone cells (effe
> ctive against osteoporosis).
>>
>> The second answer, regarding the liver damage, is that the only
>> information about this is quite suspect, coming out of a very poorly
>> designed research study where the cats in the study were given doses
>> found effective on HUSKY SLED DOGS for lord?s sake! The cats were
>> given a LOADING DOSE via intravenous injection, of 25 mg ? more than
>> 10 times the recommended daily dose for cats. That?s the only study
>> which has found this supposed link between Winstrol and liver damage.
>> And even in that study, with those remarkably ridiculous doses, the
>> cats in that study only had elevated liver enzymes (no tumours, etc.)
>> and the liver enzymes dropped back to normal levels when the Winstrol
>> was discontinued. This is consistent with my experience as well. I
>> refused to stop the Winstrol for my cat, when the enzymes went up,
>> because he was going to die with the low red cell count he had. I
>> kept him on Winstrol for around 10 months, before the red cells were
>> in a normal range. During that ten month per
> iod, I would wean him down a few times, but ALWAYS the red cells
> would immediately drop again, so it was more than clear that it was
> the Winstrol making the numbers rise. So, in the end, he had Winstrol
> pretty much for the duration of 10 months and his liver enzymes went
> right back to normal again, once I discontinued the Winstrol ? NO
> lasting damage. This was also my experience with a second cat with a
> nasal sarcoma, and where I used the Winstrol to keep her appetite up
> and reduce the swelling (she was 16). The enzymes went quite high at
> the outset of my use of Winstrol, but went back to normal when I
> weaned her off for a bit and then again when I ultimately took her off
> the Winstrol.
>>
>> Get the Winstrol if you can, and use it in combination with the
>> prednisone (which I am told also helps to protect the liver when the
>> Winstrol is used) and Doxycycline.
>>
>> Amani
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Liz McCarty
>> Sent: September-15-16 1:40 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: [Felvtalk] My baby recently diagnosed with FeLV
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Looking for support, suggestions, and information. I've never had a
>> cat with FeLV. We took our 1 year old, Hodor, to the vet because he
>> seemed lethargic and in his stool there was a piece of floss that was
>> red. At the vet things escalated and they told us he was severely
>> anemic and would need a transfusion that day. I took off work and
>> rushed him to a specialist. The vet there told us she would run an
>> FeLV test before doing anything in case we wanted to avoid the extra
>> tests and procedures. She told us he was FeLV positive and
>> persistently talked to me and my fiance about euthanizing him which
>> was out of the question for us. I took him to the vet thinking it was
>> going to be minor and then she's talking to me about killing him! We
>> went forward with the blood transfusion. It's been almost 3 weeks
>> now. They had him on doxycycline in case there was a bacterial
>> cause, and prednisone. Last week he started interferon... Does anyone
>> have experience with that and know if it was effective?
> I also started him on Pet Tinic. Any other suggestions? Any insight
> into whether you think he will be able to pull through? He doesn't
> have cancer, they ran the tests but don't know if it's in the bone
> marrow. I'm scared. We have another one year old, unrelated, and they
> are best friends. It breaks my heart to think they might be separated.
> She's not FeLV positive.
>>
>> Additionally I have set up a go fund me to help with the costs we
>> incurred, and I want to donate half to FeLV research if anyone is
>> interested. http://www.gofundme.com/2mzdpgk
>>
>> Mainly looking for support and advice. Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Elizabeth McCarty, ASW #36438
>>
>> On May 10, 2018 at 4:09 PM Maribel Piloto
wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I have a Leuk+ girl who is getting very anemic. Her name is Flaqui.
>> She showed up at one of the colonies I feed a couple of months ago
>> (already spayed) and was so thin I thought she was an elderly cat
>> with not much time left so I took her home to give her some comfort
>> in her final days. When I took her to the vet it turned out that she
>> isn't that old (vet things 4-5) but she's Leuk+. I decided to keep
>> her in my room where I have another Leuk+ guy. I'm building a little
>> catio for them outside one of the bedroom windows so they can enjoy
>> the outside.
>> Flaqui's numbers in January 2018 were...
>> RBC - 4.15 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
>> HCT - 20.2% (30.0-45.0) LOW
>> HGB 6.8 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
>> MCV 48.7 fL (41.0-58.0)
>> MCH - 16.5 pg (12.0-20.0)
>> MCHC - 33.8 g/dL (29.0-37.5)
>> RDW - 20.5% (17.3-22.0)
>> %RETIC - 1.3%
>> RETIC - 53.2 K/uL (3.0-50.0) HIGH
>> WBC - 15.30 K/uL (5.50-19.50)
>> EOS - 1.8 K/uL (0.10-0.79) HIGH
>> PLT - 663 K/uL (175-600)
>> Everything else was normal
>> I started her on Liqui-Tinic which is a supplement containing iron
>> and B-12 among other things. Also giving her Vetri-DMG. She
>> initially had very bad diarrhea but I managed to clear this with
>> Metronidazole. She's also been dewormed and got Revolution.
>> Despite eating and showing an interest in food, she has been losing
>> weight (down to 5 lbs) so last week I had bloodwork done again. Here
>> are the results...
>> RBC - 3.79 M/ul (5.00-10.00) LOW
>> HCT - 14.8% (30.0-45.0) LOW
>> HGB 8.1 g/dl (9.0-15.1) LOW
>> MCV 39.2 fL (41.0-58.0) LOW
>> MCH - 21.4 pg (12.0-20.0) HIGH
>> MCHC - --- g/dL (29.0-37.5)
>> RDW - 21.7% (17.3-22.0)
>> %RETIC - 1.1%
>> RETIC - 40.7 K/uL (3.0-50.0)
>> WBC - 22.73. K/uL (5.50-19.50) HIGH
>> NEU - 18.48 K/uL (2.50-12.50) HIGH
>> PLT 698 K/uL (175-600) HIGH
>> Everything else was normal
>> My vet told me to start her on Clavamox since the white blood cell
>> count was high which is indicative on an infection somewhere. I was
>> really alarmed by the HCT number because I had a cat with chronic
>> renal failure and anemia some years back and I know that once the HCT
>> numbers get below 20% it can be very dangerous. With that cat,
>> Grayson, I used Aranesp very successfully to treat his anemia. He
>> eventually succumbed to the kidney failure but the Aranesp kept his
>> anemia at bay.
>> I've been reading that blood transfusions are one of the things to
>> do with Leuk+ cats once the HCT numbers get low but blood
>> transfusions in my area (South FL) are in the $1000 range and I
>> manage 6 colonies and have other cats at home with medical needs
>> including one that needs a full mouth extraction for stomatitis and I
>> just can't spend that type of money on Flaqui.
>> Do you guys think that Aranesp is something that would work on her?
>> She does not have kidney problems. However, based on the
>> reticulocyte levels, she does seem to have non-regenerative anaemia.
>> I read this document at Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic
>> Kidney Disease that explains that the reticulocyte level needs to be
>> adjusted based on PCV...
>> In particular, since reticulocytes are commonly expressed in
>> percentage terms, they need to be adjusted to allow for the degree of
>> anaemia, i.e. 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 20% is twice as
>> many as 1% reticulocytes in a cat with a PCV of 10%.
>> Let's assume your cat's PCV is 18% and the measured reticulocyte
>> count is 0.75%. You multiply the PCV by the measured count, then
>> divide the result by the normal PCV level (35% for many
>> laboratories). In this instance, you would get an adjusted result of
>> 0.39%, which indicates non-regeneration.
>> In contrast, if your cat's PCV was 13% and the measured reticulocyte
>> count was 0.75%, your adjusted result would be 0.28. This also
>> indicates non-regeneration, but it is more severe (i.e. the lower the
>> corrected value, the lower the regenerative response).
>> Flaqui's adjusted reticulocyte level is 14.8HCT X 1.1 RET = 16.28/35
>> = .46 which indicates non-regeneration.
>> Any help would be appreciated. Flaqui has been doing better the
>> last couple of days. I think the Clavamox helped - but I really wish
>> I could improve those HCT numbers.
>> Maribel & Flaqui.
>> "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are
>> treated."
>> -Mohandas Ghandi
>>
>>
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