[Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6

Sat Jun 9 23:20:04 CDT 2018

Hi Jennifer

There are people in this group from all over the U.S. (New York, Texas, Wisconsin, California, etc.) and all around the world (Canada – me!; Brazil, Italy, South Africa), so I just meant that if you tell us in your email, approximately where you’re located, there may be people near you who might be willing to help out with your cat.

In my personal opinion, once you’ve taken the time and care to tame down a feral, as you have clearly done, I would never put them back out on the street. But maybe that’s why I’m up to 18 cats now! I just think that once they know what it’s like to be warm and clean and loved, it is just too terrible to put them back outside again.

Frankly, of the two conditions, it is the FIV which is more contagious so if you’ve had experience with that, and it turned out okay, in my experience, it won’t be the FeLV that causes a problem, unless you have kittens in your house. Adult cats can end up testing positive for FeLV, but it doesn’t do anything to them. I agree with you that you should try hard to find him another home, but if all else fails, please consider keeping him. It sounds like you’ve done just a wonderful thing for him, and he obviously loves you very much.

With respect to the anbiotic, nothing is like Doxycyline other than another tetracycline. Broad-spectrum antibiotics cover Gram positive and Gram negative bacteria – that is what is meant by broad spectrum. Doxycycline had effects on bacteria, viruses (block viral ability to replicate), spirochetes (eg – Lyme Disease), parasites (eg – malaria, immature stage of the roundworm), etc. Don’t let them try and substitute Doxcycycline – it works very differently than almost every other antibiotic. Nothing at all wrong with the Orbifloxacin – it is a floroquinolone I think – same family as ciprofloxacin – and it is effect against some organisms like Pseudomonas aeruginosa  and Staph aureus which are tough bugs to kill. But I suggested the Doxycycline because it might help with the background viral issues.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Minnich
Sent: June-09-18 6:19 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6

Hi,  thank you for replying.  It is helpful to talk to someone with experience with this.

Sorry to be ignorant but, how do I post where I am?  (Not sure what that means).
And If I post, is it ok to ‘put it out there’ re: possible home with other felv positives?
Esp because I would be willing to help support him which I think makes a difference.

we’d love to keep and care for him and this sucks !!  but i’m trying to be positive that a plan will happen.  He went from hissy street cat to curling up in my lap.  Urg!

I’d worry with someone else unless it was someone with experience, or like u said non cat crazy people but compassionate and committed.

We discussed it a few times and just would not be comfortable with the risk of coMingling them unfortunately,-:( which sucks.  Or the whole vaccination thing b/c with multiple other cats it’ll be too much craziness plus not even sure of efficacy, or side effects.

That leaves me with leaving him separated and constantly trying to be sterilized on our end which seems cumbersome and I’m not so sure fair to him to be isolated all the time.   OR the only cat.  OR in a multi pos. home (prob. preferrable b/c someone would know how to treat him). OR putting him back outside which doesn’t seem best for him.

I can imagine there are times it works out ok to comingle yes, where it can be ok vs ‘oh my gosh no don’t do that’.  That is what happened with my FIV cat which is a long story but bottom line after research and talking to folks it was an ok fit b/c no one were fighters. felv is different. I have known others (individuals or rescues) where exposure of different things had bad outcomes.  I guess it’s a matter of variables, situations and/or luck.   Sounds like you have been fortunate which is awesome.
(Thanks for ALL u do to help the felines-:)

I got the antibiotic before seeing this.  I am
familiar with doxy and thought that’s what he’d give, but it was Orbax (Orbifloxacin).
Are U familiar?
When i got it I asked front desk if it was as strong as doxy and she said yes and that it’s broad spectrum antibiotic.   Thoughts?

Are u familiar with Collodial Silver?
 If not I can send the link.
 I was recommended this yesterday for use for people and cats or other animals.
Cat person said she uses all the time for different things from bacterial infections to URI’s.   It’s a natural antibiotic.
 It lists as an option for stomatitis  and felv use so I imagine it cannot hurt,  in basic doses.  (supposed to be good for many things including inflammation and immune-building).  I plan to give him that and the antibiotic; was ok with vet .

With ur experience and what u’ve heard (he’s between 5-7 yrs. old they say;  to be neutered in couple weeks;   10lbs  (needs gain some);   Bad stomatitis
(i’ll send pic if u want ):

A) what’s ur feeling about putting him
back outside?    (I’ve never done that;  he could get by but My feeling is he shouldn’t be in the elements and would do better inside)—- just not sure what will happen if there are no other good options.

B) at that age and what you are hearing... any sense of lifespan?  (I know it’s hard to say but was guessing 2-4 years or up to a year). my vet said oldest one he knew of was patient’s who lived to 8y/o.   What’s ur feeling of assessing if he could last a while or if things could go south quickly??
I guess i’m trying to imagine how long or short term the commitment may be.

C). He would def . seem to have felv by way of strong stain and stomatitis.  In doing some research, I wonder about the confirmTory IFA test.  It seems if it’s pos. too, that it’s in the bone marrow and no chance shedding it.

Thanks!
Jennifer

On Jun 9,r  2018, at 1:24 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
Jennifer – from your area code, you are no where near me. You need to post where you are.

Can I also suggest you get your vet to start him on doxycycline – 50 mg. daily, for an extended treatment period like 6 weeks. As long as he isn’t showing other symptoms other than the stomatitis, that should be enough for now. Even if your vet wants to put him other antibiotics, the Doxycycline should also be considered alongside other meds. It has been to shown to interfere with viral replication so it might help. I have used it for both FeLV and FIV cats, and had good results. (I won’t go into the details, since everyone on this chatline is well and truly tired of me posting the same stuff in answer to new inquiries☺.)

I think what you’re doing is simply tremendous. Unfortunately, you may have a very difficult time finding a home for him. Anyone who doesn’t have a cat already is not a crazy cat person, and therefore, likely unwilling to take on a cat with significant responsibilities – at least into the future. Anyone with a cat or cats will have the same issues you mention with respect to worrying about cross-contamination. I agree that someone with a positive household may be an option.

Though I doubt it can help with your decision-making (since I understand the fact that no one can reassure you 100% that nothing will happen), I have had both FeLV cats and FIP cats enter my household on several occasions. Each time, my vet would warn that this would “clear out my house” when it came to the other cats. However, I never had another cat become FeLV positive or FIP positive. I think that kittens are vulnerable, so I stayed away from taking on kittens when I had these cats, but other than that, not much else changed. My FeLV cat lived to age 7, and had had a significant time frame when he was very ill and therefore likely shedding the virus. I had at last 8 other cats during this time frame. No one ever got sick. I currently have a FIP+ cat, and have had her for four years already, and I am shockingly up to 18 cats (don’t ask - taking in all the neighbourhood strays) and no one else has had a problem with FIP – AND I had two litters of kittens in the house this past year, and took in a another kitten who was about 6 months old in October – again, so far so good.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Minnich
Sent: June-09-18 12:53 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6

Hello,   I subscribed a few years ago but have never posted;  not even sure how.
I think I tried and never worked.
Is this a forum to ask advice and/or ask about long term foster or adopter?  Please I hope u will read this.  🙏 Thank you.

A male tabby community cat by my house who I befriended turns out to be double positive.-:( I would notice pain when he was eating so then I eventually pureed wet food in the blender til was like soup and sat with him while he ate... I was so happy he’d eat!
Even that was hard sometimes til eventually it was manageable.

My plan was to neuter/shots/chip/get tested, and adopt.

Things took a different order b/c I felt so bad about his mouth so I took him by my vet first to diagnose... well he tested double
positive-:(,    and has very bad stomatitis.   I got antibiotics, and am gonna give with collodial silver.   He has neuter appt. In a couple weeks.  They think he is
5-6 y/o.

 I am at a crossroads b/c I do not want to put him back outside-:( yet I don’t want to expose my cats.

 Speaking to our vet, Adopting him ourselves doesn’t seem too super viable unless we separate him and we’d wonder or worry about possible cross contamination.
Vaccinating our indoor cats doesn’t seem practical as it would get costly and concerning b/c of possible side effects or efficacy.

Which leads me to:   If he were an only cat (or only cat with other animals), OR in a multi-positive house with experienced felv parents,  that would be options for him..   I just want him to be indoor only, loved, safe, and cared for;  it’s a lot to take on but he’s So worth it and deserves it;  he clearly was overlooked in the neighborhood and now has a chance at at least comfort care and love;    if it can’t be me, my hope is it would be someone who gets his situation and loves and cares for him no matter what.
To a right home with good people,  I would be willing to transport and/or support $ him if needed.
Do you know of anyone? Is this a forum that
 I could ask?

Thank you for ur compassion, and time!
Jennifer
305-298-3709

On Jun 8, 2018, at 9:23 PM, Deborah Whorley <mysrnt at gmail.com<mailto:mysrnt at gmail.com>> wrote:
Latest discussion from this group. Start at the bottom. There were other
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org>>
Date: Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 1:22 PM
Subject: Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>

Send Felvtalk mailing list submissions to
        felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org>

You can reach the person managing the list at
        felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-owner at felineleukemia.org>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Felvtalk digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Quentin (Marlene Snowman)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 16:22:18 -0300
From: Marlene Snowman <tessie1965 at icloud.com<mailto:tessie1965 at icloud.com>>
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Quentin
Message-ID: <14D133E6-4407-4D32-9BB0-E90919ACFD77 at icloud.com<mailto:14D133E6-4407-4D32-9BB0-E90919ACFD77 at icloud.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thank you, I appreciate this.

Marlene

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 8, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
>
> In my world, my perspective is usually, it can?t hurt. I would at least get her on the Doxycycline. It might help with the other problems you are having, or not, but I would probably give it a try if it were me. The only thing to watch with the Doxycycline is that the hard tablets have been known to get stuck in a cat?s throat and cause burning of the eosophagus. I have never had that problem but I have heard others speak of it. If that is a concern and all you can get are hard tablets, rub them in butter before giving them and ensure that the cat is given some yummy canned food afterwards to ensure that the pill goes down properly. Others have mentioned you can get Doxycycline in liquid form as well. I suspect that the problem has been blown out of proportion to the amount of time it actually occurs, and just like what happened with Winstrol and the link between it and liver damage, it has improperly curtailed the use of Doxycycline. I have found Doxycycline (a tetracycline) to ha
 ve a truly remarkable range of effectiveness, so with any luck, it may address whatever is causing the other nose and eye infections.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] On Behalf Of Marlene Snowman
> Sent: June-08-18 2:39 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Quentin
>
> Thank you Amani for all of this. My little girl, Bear has never gotten rid of a nose infection. And about 1.5 months ago developed an eye and more extreme nose infection. The vet prescribed an antibiotic for 7 days and then every week thereafter 2 to 3 days of this same oral antibiotic.
>
> The nose infection, clears for a few days and then starts back. She has no issue with appetite or anything else. Unfortunately the vet has never been able to really examine her as she is so angry and wild with other people.
>
> That being said, I?m not sure if things are just the way she has always been, with this chronic nose infection that she has never cleared or something else further developing. Either way, thus antibiotic isn?t working on eliminating this issue. And to your point and your experience with Zander, maybe now is the time for me to get this protocol going before something further or a worsening.
>
> Thoughts ?
> M
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 8, 2018, at 3:04 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Marlene
>
> I am not sure about a 3 year old. I think if he/she is stable and having no problems, I wouldn?t be too concerned.
>
> I would be more worried about a kitten, since they have very little reserves. Moreover, generally speaking, FeLV is known to be more problematic for kittens, then it is for older cats. As I have mentioned in other posts, when my cat Zander was diagnosed with FeLV (and he too was a very sickly little kitten when we first got him ? worms, leaking nose, runny diarrhea and almost blind with gunk in both eyes), he lived in our house with at least 8 other cats for more than 7 years and no one else got it.
>
> With Zander, we had an initial episode in June where he got very sick, and his blood counts were terrible, and then he seemed to recover. Getting no advice otherwise from the vets, other than the fact that he was FeLV positive, we were relieved and happy that he seemed to be okay. He wasn?t treated with anything after the first bout of illness. Then it came back with a vengeance in September (with haematocrit at FIVE compared to a normal of 25 to 45), and from September and from September to December, we fought to keep him alive, with blood transfusions and trying every option out there ? LTCI, interferon, etc. He was also receiving Doxycycline and prednisone at that time. It wasn?t until I added the Winstrol at the end of December, did we get a startling and amazing turn-around, with his red cells and haematocrit finally beginning to climb slowly but steadily out of the terribly low numbers we had been trying to fight with the blood transfusions.
>
> I always said that if I had to do it again, I would have started treating Zander after that first episode in June, and before he became critically ill, and almost died in September. My research has shown that Doxycycline has the ability to inhibit viral replication and/or the building of the viral coat. I would therefore feel that there is something which may be gained in treating with Doxycycline for a course of treatment, in the hopes that if the virus is there, it is stymied in its ability to reproduce. The problem is that there is really no way to know if the Doxycycline did anything, if the cat doesn?t go on to have a frank FeLV infection. It could obviously also be that the cat would never have gone on to have a frank FeLV infection. However, in my mind anyway, I think it would be a reasonable approach to treat with Doxycycline in the absence of symptoms, after a FeLV diagnosis. I recommend an extended treatment course of 6 weeks, because this is not a bacterial infection, an
 d what is being hoped for here is to stymie the reproduction and spreading of a virus.
>
> I also mentioned recently on this chatline, that I found that the Doxycycline is also one of the few antibiotics which is effective against the immature phase of round worms. I had no idea that there was anything to done for round worms except the deworming that is regularly done. I had done that with a group of cats (young siblings) I had rescued from the road, and then A YEAR later, one of the three vomited up a round worm. I couldn?t figure out what had happened. One of the other siblings had gotten pregnant (yes ? I am totally embarrassed ? long story but not acceptable) and HER KITTENS had a whole lot of very strange symptoms. I finally figured out that the life cycle of round worms has the immature stage going through bodily tissues including the eyes, and these kittens had all kinds of eye problems which ONLY responded to oral doxycycline ? ie ? nothing topical and no other antibiotics. Anyway, I?ll save you all my pondering and research on this, and my ultimate conclusion t
 hat deworming should probably be accompanied by oral doxycycline, since the immature roundworm forms are not affected by the medication used to deworm the cats, and then cycle through and become adults (after invading the lungs and heavy coughing allows the immatures to be swallowed and end up in the intestines where they mature). Thus, a course of Doxycycline may also deal with this other issue at the same time.
>
> Whew.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] On Behalf Of Marlene Snowman
> Sent: June-08-18 12:41 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Quentin
>
> Amani, in reading this I now realize that I may not be doing enough for my 3 year old. I had understood that this protocol was for when signs/symptoms showed. I didn?t realize otherwise. From reading your post to JoAnne I should also be getting my vet to prescribe now the doxy ? My cat is 6.2 lbs. should I be combining that with some other parts of this protocol now and only going to the winstrol at a later date?
>
> Any advice is appreciated....
>
> Marlene
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 8, 2018, at 1:21 PM, Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi JoAnne
>
> If this was my kitten, I would not want to just wait it out to see what might transpire. I did that with my kitten, and it was a mistake.
>
> My suggestion is that you start him on a long course (6 weeks) of Doxycycline. I don?t know the dosing for such a small kitten. My guess would be 25 mg daily. I don?t think you need to start right away ? give him some time to eat, bulk, recover from the other things like worms, etc.
>
> You might also want to start now finding out if your vet will agree to prescribe Winstrol if worst comes to worst. Not all vets have heard of Winstrol (Stanazalol) or are willing to obtain it. The combination I recommend, and had a very good response from, is:
>
> Winstrol ? 1 mg twice a day
>
> Doxycycline ? 1/5 to ? tablet (100 mg) twice a day
>
> Prednisolone ? ? 5 mg tablet, twice a day
>
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] On Behalf Of JoAnne Kraun
> Sent: June-07-18 8:22 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Quentin
>
> I recently adopted a kitten from a rehoming site online.  He was born on March 20, he was a little over 8 weeks when I got him.  He was covered in fleas so I took him straight to the vet.  They said he also had tapeworms.  He was treated for fleas and tapeworms and received his first series of vaccines.  His weight was 2.1 lbs.  They tested him for FIV and FeLV.  About 10 minutes after I got home, they called me and told me he tested positive for FeLV, a faint positive.  I have been doing a lot of research and I have been told that a faint positive could just mean that the disease is starting and he will have a normal positive next time he is tested, and also that a faint positive is the same as a regular positive. He is not sick now.  He eats a lot.  I have been feeding him Orijen dry food and both Weruva and Wellness Core canned food.  He seems to be gaining weight.  He looks good and he is a very active and vocal kitten.  He is very affectionate and loves my Cavalier Spaniel, wh
 o he likes to snuggle with after he wears himself at night.
>
> Because he was so young when he was diagnosed, everything I have read online indicates that he will probably only live for a few months to a year before he starts to get sick.  I have never had a cat with this disease.   Everything I find online indicates that most kittens will not be able to  clear the virus and will live 2-3 years if we are lucky.
>
> I am wondering if there are some supplements I can get him started on now, before he starts to get sick.  Regardless of how long I have him, he will be loved and cared for.  He is already very spoiled.   I just can't even picture this little guy being sick.  He is such a good little cat.  I call him Q.
>
> I just lost my 17 year old Himalayan Persian to cancer a few months ago.  I haven't had a kitten for 17 years.  I have 3 dogs and thought that an adult cat may be too stressed around my big dogs.  The Cavalier is fine, but I also have 2 Akitas.  My other cat was fine with the Akitas.  She was not afraid of them at all.  Q does not seem to be afraid of them, either, and he lets them give him kisses.  I do separate Q from the Akitas when I am not around because one of the is very playful and I am afraid that she would try to play with Q.  The Akitas are over 100 lbs so he could get hurt so easily.  Q seems to be a very laid back kitten, he does not scare easily and purrs whenever he is around us.
>
> What can I expect?  Will he start getting sick in a few months?  Do they just quit eating or what happens?   I would like to think that Q will be one of the lucky ones that lives for over 10 years, but I know I need to be realistic.  I just want him to have the best quality of life that he can have with us.
>
>
>
> JoAnne
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20180608/5626bfb5/attachment.html>

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

------------------------------

End of Felvtalk Digest, Vol 47, Issue 6
***************************************

_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
_______________________________________________
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:Felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://felineleukemia.org/pipermail/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org/attachments/20180610/3b8d0c79/attachment-0001.html>