[Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5

Ardy Robertson ardyr at centurytel.net
Fri Jan 6 06:50:16 CST 2017


Good idea....yes, Tigger's gums and paw pads were so light-colored. Topaz is negative and I look at her pads and gums and think how nice it is to not have that worry. I'm grateful. I miss my Tigger-babe so much!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT CHAPEL
Sent: Friday, January 6, 2017 12:47 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Cc: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 33, Issue 5

Ardy....

I find that if I do anything that puts pressure on the gums ( like trying to get a look when the cats are fighting it) it forces blood away from the gums and I can't get a good read....  I wonder if the same wouldn't be true of a Kitty biting on a pen??.....
Though... with my Yogi... his gums are so white I don't know that they would get any pink in them with or withOUT pressure.......    I try to get a look when they are sleeping and can usually can a fair look before they start " arguing"   : )


On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 12:02 AM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
wrote:

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>    1. Re: FW: Greetings & Bogey's Doc Visit (Ardy Robertson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2017 23:02:38 -0600
> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Greetings & 
> Bogey's Doc Visit
> Message-ID: <000001d267da$1b62ffd0$5228ff70$@centurytel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Sherri,
>
> Hi ? I recently wanted to look at my Topaz? gums because she has black 
> spots in her mouth and I was concerned. She just would not let me in 
> there for anything??UNTIL, I realized she likes to bite on pens! So I 
> can hold a pen crossways, and she bites it, thus opening her mouth. I 
> can see in there very well, and the vet says there is nothing wrong ?
> she just has that color pigmentation in her mouth. But I could have 
> easily held the pen with one hand and snapped a picture with my phone 
> in the other hand.
>
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2017 8:24 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Greetings & Bogey's Doc Visit
>
>
> I was leaning that way Amani and you just cemented it for me. I am 
> just going to dump that powder down the middle the best I can and give 
> her half AM and half PM. I think I will do the same with the Pred 
> (split the pill). 5mg at once seems like a lot for this little cat.
> (6lb 5oz). She may feel better having it that way anyway.
>
> I have to say, I have trouble getting Bogey to take that Doxy. It must 
> really taste bad. I am going to try to crush it and put it in ice 
> cream or yogurt this time around. I also feel that the dose she is on 
> for that is high. 25mg twice a day. They cut the pills poorly the 
> first time around and the ?parts? were smaller. When they refilled, 
> they had the 100mg cut in actual quarters and she took ill shortly 
> after we started her back on it in December.
>
> My hope is that Bogey will be able to come off the meds for some 
> periods like your Zander did. I thought I was getting better at 
> noticing pinkness in gums and nose but clearly I haven?t mastered that 
> yet. I looked at her gums today and they looked awfully pink compared 
> to 4 months ago. I tried to get her to sit still while I took a pic of 
> them for reference?gonna have to get another pair of hands for that 
> kind of photography. :-)
>
> We are about 4.5 months into this treatment. I hope that by restarting 
> the regiment of meds, with some changes, her numbers will come up to 
> where they were in December. I think we were really making progress.
>
>
> Yea I don?t understand the ?icteric? either. Just gonna accept that 
> something looked off to the tech and trust the results. (and you)
>
>
> Your Zander?was a lucky little boy to have you!
>
>
> From: Felvtalk  > on behalf of Amani Oakley  >
> Reply-To:  >
> Date: Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:47 PM
> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  "  >
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Greetings & Bogey's Doc Visit
>
>
> I would suggest 1 mg 2x a day then, Sherri. I had Zander on 2 mg 2x a 
> day but only right at the start for a month or so to ?kickstart? the 
> process because his haematocrit was soooo low. I think the usually 
> recommended dose for Winstrol for cats is 1 mg twice a day. I gave 
> Zander his pills all at once ? prednisone, Winstrol and Doxycycline. I 
> suspect that the problems you encountered are far more likely to be 
> related to the higher Winstrol dose than the staggering of the 
> medication.
>
> Now that you have clarified the dosing for Bogey, I think that the 
> problem was the high dosing of the Stanazolol. I think if you drop it 
> by half, and keep everything else the same, you might get a better 
> response. Frankly, though, it is the very fact that the numbers tumble 
> every time the meds are pulled, that convinces me that it is 
> definitely the meds that are making such a significant difference in 
> the levels. I really found, with Zander, that it took more than 10 
> months before the numbers would ?stick? ? ie ? when I discontinued the 
> meds, that the numbers wouldn?t start to immediately decline, and I 
> was testing him weekly. I could always see an immediate reaction in 
> the blood work, if I pulled him off the Winstrol.
>
>
> With Zander, after the 10 month period, I was able to wean him down, 
> but that probably took another 6 months or more. Thereafter, I watched 
> him like a hawk, and any time I saw his gums or ears fading in colour 
> (and I got pretty good at seeing it, as you might imagine) I would put 
> him back on the meds for a 6-8 week course, and that tended to 
> straighten him back up again.
>
>
> I don?t know what to make of the description of icteric, because, like 
> I said, the only way serum would become icteric is from an elevated 
> bilirubin count, and the bilirubin was completely normal. However, 
> even if the tech mixed up the description, that doesn?t mean the lab 
> results are mixed up. The latest results are awfully close to the 
> results from before December, so I wouldn?t assume they belong to 
> another cat. Determining if a sample is icteric simply requires the 
> tech to hold up the tube and look at the colour of the serum. It is 
> possible she wrote down icteric on this sample, but it was another 
> sample which was icteric. I am fairly confident that the serum was not 
> icteric, though.
>
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: January-05-17 8:43 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Greetings 
> & Bogey's Doc Visit
>
>
> Hi Amani. Thanks for writing. Bogey actually was taking 2mg of the 
> Stanazolol once a day. (one capsule) Is that what your Zander was 
> taking? Doc said I could try every other day, or try 1mg twice a day 
> if she starts to become ill again. I think it is going to be a real 
> balancing act here. In that 22 days since she was hospitalized, she 
> only had 7 dozes of Stanazolol and 8 of Doxy. I am going to try to 
> space them out some on a daily basis. Not give her any medication 
> within 3 hours of taking another. Did you give your baby meds all in 
> one sitting (both the steroids)? She is to be on the Doxy for 10 days 
> and recheck around that time. I am watching her food intake more 
> carefully. If she starts to slow down eating like she did when her 
> liver problems started last month, maybe I can catch it before it is a 
> crisis and give her a break from them briefly.
>
>
> I wouldn?t have guessed that her numbers were so bad. I was actually 
> taken aback when he showed them to me. She is eating so well. Has 
> gained almost a pound in the last month. Active.  I thought she was 
> doing a lot better than she was as far as test results go. I was glad 
> to see her platelets were not bottomed out like they were in the past.
>
>
> Amani, did you ever get to the point with Zander that he wasn?t on 
> constant medicine? Was he able to sustain pretty good numbers for any 
> period of time without the medication?
>
>
> I had to look up the word ?icteric? that she had written on the 
> results. Bogey?s  stool and urine have no issues at this moment as far 
> as color. Nor does her skin. That surprised me too. In all honesty, 
> after I left there I thought ?did they get my results mixed up with 
> someone else's??
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sherri
>
>
> From: Felvtalk  > on behalf of Amani Oakley  >
> Reply-To:  >
> Date: Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 7:27 PM
> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  "  >
> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Greetings & Bogey's Doc Visit
>
>
> Hi Sherri
>
>
> As you?ve said, the good news is that the liver enzymes are dropping 
> down. The bad news is the anemia is back. I think if it were me, I 
> would probably go back to the 1mg a day dose of Stanazolol, along with 
> the ? tablet of doxy twice a day and the 5 mg of Prednisolone. I agree 
> you could try halving the prednisolone and giving ? tablet, twice a 
> day, but I am not sure that is very significant.
>
>
> My other concern is that the lymphocytes have jumped up quite a bit as 
> well, which is not a good thing since that is usually the result of 
> the FeLV virus load. I also see a significant drop in the platelets.
> With my cat, I found that each time I took him off the Stanazolol, I 
> would get a nose-dive of the red cells/haematocrit/hemoglobin as is 
> apparent in Bogey?s most recent blood results. That is why I ended up 
> deciding to ignore the high liver enzymes. However, I did not have a 
> situation as you described, with Bogey feeling very unwell with the 
> high liver enzymes. Zander really didn?t exhibit much in the way of 
> changes when his liver enzymes increased, but I sure saw a difference 
> when he wasn?t on the Winstrol, so I opted to keep him on the Winstrol 
> and ignore the liver enzymes. Obviously for you, you will have to see 
> how Bogey does both on and off the medication and play it by ear.
>
>
> (By the way, I don?t think the tech was right about the icteric blood. 
> The total bilirubin was only 1.4 so I don?t see how it is possible for 
> the serum to be icteric.)
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> (Sorry ? I ONCE AGAIN had to delete the rest of the message, since 
> ONCE AGAIN, the message bounced.)
>
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