[Felvtalk] Felvtalk Digest, Vol 30, Issue 10

Tue Oct 4 20:03:11 CDT 2016

Amani...
I don't know how things work in Canada but I KNOW that were I a lawyer I 
would get more cooperation from my vet....  As Vets begin to charge more 
and more and large corporations begin to buy up small practices here in 
the states the model is now moving toward the downside of human 
medicine.... discrete scheduling time periods to maximize profits...  
little time to " discuss" options and an aversion to moving on to topics 
that could cause spending extra time.....  As prices rise so do  owner 
resentments at not being " cared about" or listened to just as in human 
medicine..... and that( at least in the US) is when lawsuits are most 
likely to be filed.... Most of us can forgive a vet making a mistake 
when we feel he/she has put real thought and concern into a Tx plan but 
putting our pets at risk because an alteration in plan causes him to 
have to step outside his comfort zone( and spend some extra time 
thinking) or simply doesn't appear to care.. That doesn't fly when we 
are paying Hundreds of dollars to save our precious pets..
Malpractice lawyer pet owners ( or patients in human medicine) are 
likely surreptitiously treated with great care when moving through 
waters fraught with potential for terminal errors..... and likely get a 
bit more cooperation from their vets...   I am glad for your cats that 
you ARE in the profession that you now are...
So... it is , in my opinion, both good fortune and a dose of deferential 
caution that gets you the kind of cooperation you get from your 
vet????   Yeah.... I'm pretty jaded at this point  : )   That is why I 
HAD to retire a bit early....

 On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 02:28 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org 
wrote:

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>    1. Re: FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>       (Amani Oakley)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 18:28:16 +0000
> From: Amani Oakley To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" Subject: Re: 
> [Felvtalk] FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on
> 	Stanzolol
> Message-ID:
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Either I had a brain fart or my computer did an automatic spelling 
> correction. Sorry about that Ardy.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Amani Oakley
> Sent: October-04-16 2:26 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
> Stanzolol
>
> Argue, I wholeheartedly agree with your observation and that is 
> exactly what I find bizarre about this. Vets will not question us if 
> we want to put our cats down, but they will treat us like criminals, 
> trafficking in some sort of forbidden commodity, if we want to try 
> different things in a desperate situation.
>
> The other night, I was watching "Awakenings" again with Robin 
> Williams, and I contemplated the thought that what the real-life 
> neurologist did (on whom the movie was based) would be frowned upon by 
> the vets many of us have encountered. He basically experimented on 
> people who were in encephalophathic comas from sleeping sickness, and 
> tried a new drug out on them, on many many times the dose that had 
> been used in Parkinson's patients (L-Dopa). Unfortunately, the body 
> builds up an immunity to the drug, so the people eventually succumbed 
> and slipped back into comas, but my training an my logic is consistent 
> with that. If you are treating a patient with much to lose, you 
> obviously need to be cognizant of things like significant side 
> effects. However, if a patient is doing very poorly or even facing 
> certain death, then trying anything which might be helpful, is not 
> unethical.
>
> This is why, when I was faced with high liver enzymes when I had put 
> Zander on the Winstrol, I refused to discontinue the Winstrol. My 
> reasoning was, to what end would I discontinue the Winstrol? If I 
> stopped, he would die. If I didn't stop, then yes, there was a chance 
> of liver damage, and I would have to deal with that when the current, 
> most urgent crisis (low red cells, lack of appetite, etc.) was brought 
> under control. If he didn't make it through the treatment with the 
> WInstrol, then I wouldn't have to deal with the liver damage. If he 
> did, I would deal with the liver damage next.
>
> I don't understand vets refusing to use Winstrol when there are little 
> or no other options. I don't understand vets who won't try something 
> like Doxycycline, when, usually at worst, they don't think it will 
> work - ie - no effect. Okay. They could be right. Try it for two 
> weeks, check the blood work and see. Thank God my vets are willing to 
> allow me to try these options and measure/measure the effects.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Ardy Robertson
> Sent: October-03-16 10:38 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
> Stanzolol
>
> I am blown away that they are perfectly willing and eager to put the 
> cat to sleep but not willing to try the doxycycline that will block 
> the virus from replicating. We fight for our kitties' lives and have 
> to also fight the vets to get the medicine they need, and we have to 
> tread lightly when we find a vet willing to prescribe the Winstrol 
> that they need. I wish we could just buy it over the counter.
>
> Ardy
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 4:53 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
> Stanzolol
>
> Thanks Amani.
>
> I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and 
> asked again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I 
> am just going to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on 
> the regiment we are on. I feel very thankful for my vet that he 
> prescribing the Winstrol. I hope it is enough.
>
> Your boy Zander must have been one strong cat to recover from how sick 
> he was. It sounds like you really monitored him and gave him the best 
> treatment. Your advise and knowledge of this awful disease and the 
> benefits and pitfalls of trying to treat it is invaluable to all of us 
> who are caring for these lovely creatures.
>
> I read this messaging board and feel so bad that cat owners who 
> desperately need this drug cannot get it. I believe without a doubt 
> that as fast as Bogey's counts were dropping, she would probably not 
> still be with me today without it. I am sure the stigma attached to it 
> keeps a lot of vets from prescribing it or maybe they are just 
> uneducated about it. My other vet wouldn't even discuss a transfusion 
> as she was certain that nothing could help us for very long. She was 
> quite intent on me putting this cat down and just wanted to wash her 
> hands of us it seemed. So the stigma isn't just about this treatment, 
> it is around the disease itself. Her statement "There are plenty of 
> other healthy cats that need good homes" is proof enough of that.
>
> How frustrating for all of us.
>
> Thank you again for your insight.
>
> From: Felvtalk > on behalf of Amani Oakley >
> Reply-To: >
> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 2:29 PM
> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org" >
> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>
> Hi Sherri
>
> Keep up with the bloodwork. Good for you. Because I did Zander's 
> bloodwork weekly, I was able to watch his counts very carefully as 
> well, and this is why I am so firm on what I saw that worked and what 
> I saw that didn't work. Keeping a close eye on the bloodwork will help 
> you immediately point to the effects of the medication, and I am sure 
> that the stall you got on the improvement of the bloodwork is solely 
> because he removed her off the Winstrol. I saw this drop or stagnation 
> every time I even tried to wean Zander down from 2 mg a day to 1 mg a 
> day, for the first 10 months, but I was starting at much worse blood 
> results than you were. Zander's haematocrit was 10 when I started the 
> Winstrol.
>
> Interesting about your vet's background. That may well explain his 
> openness to using Winstrol where so many others refuse. Those in 
> athletics are well aware of the amazing body building, muscle 
> building, strength building properties of Winstrol, and the fact that 
> the rumoured side-effects are very very exaggerated - probably to try 
> and scare off athletes from using the stuff. Once you use it, you find 
> out it really doesn't have all those terrible side effects, and it 
> makes a real difference to improving body strength. That is why I have 
> come to the conclusion that, very sadly, we are being denied access to 
> Winstrol, not because it doesn't work or because it has bad side 
> effects, but because in the media it is BAD to take steroids if you 
> are an athlete. Why that should affect cats, or elderly people with 
> osteoporosis for that matter, is way way beyond me and very 
> frustrating.
>
> With respect to the platelets, my concern remains that the low 
> platelet count and the high lymphocyte count show that the virus is 
> still actively attacking cells. My theory is that while the Winstrol 
> is working to build up bone marrow and allow it to regenerate the lost 
> red cells, the virus is still attacking. That is why I believe that 
> the Winstrol on its own will not be enough, and you need to 
> double-team the virus with the Doxycycline on the one side, 
> interfering with the ability of the virus to reproduce and the 
> Winstrol on the other hand, working to repair some of the damage 
> caused by the virus.
>
> I don't think there is anything that directly will give you a boost on 
> the platelets, and my concern is that when the platelets drop so low, 
> you have a real risk of internal bleeding. I don't know what else to 
> suggest.
>
> Amani
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Sherri Godschalk
> Sent: September-30-16 2:11 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>
>
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