[Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Tue Oct 4 13:28:16 CDT 2016

Either I had a brain fart or my computer did an automatic spelling correction. Sorry about that Ardy.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
Sent: October-04-16 2:26 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Argue, I wholeheartedly agree with your observation and that is exactly what I find bizarre about this. Vets will not question us if we want to put our cats down, but they will treat us like criminals, trafficking in some sort of forbidden commodity, if we want to try different things in a desperate situation.

The other night, I was watching "Awakenings" again with Robin Williams, and I contemplated the thought that what the real-life neurologist did (on whom the movie was based) would be frowned upon by the vets many of us have encountered. He basically experimented on people who were in encephalophathic comas from sleeping sickness, and tried a new drug out on them, on many many times the dose that had been used in Parkinson's patients (L-Dopa). Unfortunately, the body builds up an immunity to the drug, so the people eventually succumbed and slipped back into comas, but my training an my logic is consistent with that. If you are treating a patient with much to lose, you obviously need to be cognizant of things like significant side effects. However, if a patient is doing very poorly or even facing certain death, then trying anything which might be helpful, is not unethical.

This is why, when I was faced with high liver enzymes when I had put Zander on the Winstrol, I refused to discontinue the Winstrol. My reasoning was, to what end would I discontinue the Winstrol? If I stopped, he would die. If I didn't stop, then yes, there was a chance of liver damage, and I would have to deal with that when the current, most urgent crisis (low red cells, lack of appetite, etc.) was brought under control. If he didn't make it through the treatment with the WInstrol, then I wouldn't have to deal with the liver damage. If he did, I would deal with the liver damage next.

I don't understand vets refusing to use Winstrol when there are little or no other options. I don't understand vets who won't try something like Doxycycline, when, usually at worst, they don't think it will work - ie - no effect. Okay. They could be right. Try it for two weeks, check the blood work and see. Thank God my vets are willing to allow me to try these options and measure/measure the effects.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
Sent: October-03-16 10:38 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

I am blown away that they are perfectly willing and eager to put the cat to sleep but not willing to try the doxycycline that will block the virus from replicating. We fight for our kitties' lives and have to also fight the vets to get the medicine they need, and we have to tread lightly when we find a vet willing to prescribe the Winstrol that they need. I wish we could just buy it over the counter.

Ardy

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri Godschalk
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 4:53 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Thanks Amani.

I called the vets office right after I read what you wrote below and asked again for the Doxycycline and he insisted she did not need it. I am just going to have to hope that Bogey continues to get better on the regiment we are on. I feel very thankful for my vet that he prescribing the Winstrol. I hope it is enough.

Your boy Zander must have been one strong cat to recover from how sick he was. It sounds like you really monitored him and gave him the best treatment. Your advise and knowledge of this awful disease and the benefits and pitfalls of trying to treat it is invaluable to all of us who are caring for these lovely creatures.

I read this messaging board and feel so bad that cat owners who desperately need this drug cannot get it. I believe without a doubt that as fast as Bogey's counts were dropping, she would probably not still be with me today without it. I am sure the stigma attached to it keeps a lot of vets from prescribing it or maybe they are just uneducated about it. My other vet wouldn't even discuss a transfusion as she was certain that nothing could help us for very long. She was quite intent on me putting this cat down and just wanted to wash her hands of us it seemed. So the stigma isn't just about this treatment, it is around the disease itself. Her statement "There are plenty of other healthy cats that need good homes" is proof enough of that.

How frustrating for all of us.

Thank you again for your insight.

From: Felvtalk <felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>> on behalf of Amani Oakley <aoakley at oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoakley at oakleylegal.com>>
Reply-To: <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>>
Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 2:29 PM
To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>" <felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>>
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

Hi Sherri

Keep up with the bloodwork. Good for you. Because I did Zander's bloodwork weekly, I was able to watch his counts very carefully as well, and this is why I am so firm on what I saw that worked and what I saw that didn't work. Keeping a close eye on the bloodwork will help you immediately point to the effects of the medication, and I am sure that the stall you got on the improvement of the bloodwork is solely because he removed her off the Winstrol. I saw this drop or stagnation every time I even tried to wean Zander down from 2 mg a day to 1 mg a day, for the first 10 months, but I was starting at much worse blood results than you were. Zander's haematocrit was 10 when I started the Winstrol.

Interesting about your vet's background. That may well explain his openness to using Winstrol where so many others refuse. Those in athletics are well aware of the amazing body building, muscle building, strength building properties of Winstrol, and the fact that the rumoured side-effects are very very exaggerated - probably to try and scare off athletes from using the stuff. Once you use it, you find out it really doesn't have all those terrible side effects, and it makes a real difference to improving body strength. That is why I have come to the conclusion that, very sadly, we are being denied access to Winstrol, not because it doesn't work or because it has bad side effects, but because in the media it is BAD to take steroids if you are an athlete. Why that should affect cats, or elderly people with osteoporosis for that matter, is way way beyond me and very frustrating.

With respect to the platelets, my concern remains that the low platelet count and the high lymphocyte count show that the virus is still actively attacking cells. My theory is that while the Winstrol is working to build up bone marrow and allow it to regenerate the lost red cells, the virus is still attacking. That is why I believe that the Winstrol on its own will not be enough, and you need to double-team the virus with the Doxycycline on the one side, interfering with the ability of the virus to reproduce and the Winstrol on the other hand, working to repair some of the damage caused by the virus.

I don't think there is anything that directly will give you a boost on the platelets, and my concern is that when the platelets drop so low, you have a real risk of internal bleeding. I don't know what else to suggest.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sherri Godschalk
Sent: September-30-16 2:11 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol

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