[Felvtalk] Removing an Eye....

Margo toomanykitties2 at earthlink.net
Tue Oct 4 06:21:02 CDT 2016


This double-posted message is blank for me.

-----Original Message-----
>From: ROBERT CHAPEL <bchapel at optonline.net>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2016 4:23 AM
>To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>Cc: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Removing an Eye....
>
>
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 03:29 AM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org 
>wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>>       (Ardy Robertson)
>>    2. Re: FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>>       (dlgegg at windstream.net)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:57:29 -0500
>> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued 
>> Improvement for Bogey on
>> 	Stanzolol
>> Message-ID: <005501d21deb$0c645df0$252d19d0$@centurytel.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Well I live in Osseo, Wisconsin ? and the Osseo Vet Clinic prescribed 
>> it for me. They did not have a source for it, but I located one online 
>> for them, and the vet who is no longer there, would fill in a form 
>> online and order it, then I paid for it with a credit card and it 
>> shipped to my house with one refill. After that refill, the vet had to 
>> request it online again. The compounding pharmacy I found online was 
>> wonderful ? they are called Diamond Back Drugs. I believe it is 
>> www.diamondbackdrugs.com   and they are physically located in Arizona.
>>
>>
>> The Animal Wellness Center in Mondovi, Wisconsin SAID they would get 
>> it for me, only after I begged for it for weeks, but then they never 
>> quite got around to finding a source for it, and when I gave them the 
>> name of the Diamond Back Drug Company, they never quite got around to 
>> ordering it. So I changed to the Osseo Vet Clinic.
>>
>>
>> I do believe the other vets at the Osseo Vet Clinic would prescribe it 
>> for me because they were all aware Tigger was ?using? :) and they knew 
>> that he made fantastic progress while on it. I just didn?t get him 
>> started on it earlier enough and I did not know to give him 
>> Doxycycline until it was too late. I think I would demand Doxycycline 
>> for him if I had it to do over again because I believe Amani is 
>> probably the most knowledgeable about this dreadful disease that the 
>> vets have no answer for other than euthanization.
>>
>>
>> That?s my 2 cents worth.
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
>> Of Amy Glunt
>> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:07 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
>> Stanzolol
>>
>>
>> I think it would be really great if we could all compile a list of 
>> vets that prescribe the stanzolol, perhaps by state. That would be a 
>> really great resource for people who are looking for this information. 
>> I'm calling around my city tomorrow to see if I can find any vets who 
>> will prescribe it for my cat.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Sherri Godschalk  > wrote:
>>
>> Had to shorten this?hope it doesn?t post twice as it went to the 
>> moderator because of size.
>>
>>
>> Good to know about the liver test. I will NOT mention it to my vet.
>>
>> Since this whole process has started for Bogey and I, I often wonder 
>> what logic is used when saying that the side affects from taking the 
>> Stanzolol are liver issues, but the side effect of not taking it, is 
>> death. I know for me personally, if I was sick and facing this 
>> decision, I know what I would do without question. Believe it or not, 
>> I read that exact paper you are describing when Bogey was first 
>> prescribed the Stanzolol. (Google search) I felt pretty defeated 
>> (although many of the terms were over my head) after reading it. I did 
>> not notice the dosages though. Doesn?t sound like a very scientific 
>> study does it. Maybe we should start our own. Post the names of vets 
>> who are willing to prescribe it as well as the results each person has 
>> with their pet that is taking it. There again, I am way out in front 
>> of myself here because Bogey is not thriving but she did just run into 
>> the room with a Q-tip in her mouth (her favorite toy) and 60 days ago 
>> she could barely walk into the r
>>  oom without laying down. She has also steadily gained weight. Over a 
>> pound which doesn?t sound like much but she barely weighed 5 pounds to 
>> begin with. Life is still happening here.
>>
>>
>> It does seem like there is secrecy surrounding vets prescribing 
>> Stanzolol. Almost like I am scoring some heroin or something. (no I am 
>> not a drug user) From what you found with your other cat, clearly this 
>> could be a positive choice for inoperable tumors, and or life 
>> extending treatment for senior pets. At any rate, I feel luckier each 
>> day that my current vet values the life of my cat enough to try to 
>> save her. It sounds like your vet is terrific and that you have a 
>> great, long relationship with them. I hope to have the same, one day.
>>
>>
>> Sherri
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk  > on behalf of Amani Oakley  >
>> Reply-To:  >
>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM
>> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  "  >
>> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
>> Stanzolol
>>
>>
>> Sherri
>>
>>
>> I wouldn?t recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and they 
>> often do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the 
>> Winstrol.
>>
>>
>> I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full 
>> haematology profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili and 
>> DBili are indicators of liver function. With Zander, they rose 
>> sharply, but there was simply no other option but to continue. I had 
>> done all my research, tried out the two most likely new and promising 
>> therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and they were not at all (I mean AT 
>> ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol meant certain death for 
>> Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. They settled down on 
>> their own, and Zander never had any liver problems after almost a FULL 
>> YEAR on Winstrol.
>>
>>
>> I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the 
>> sarcoma and a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because again, 
>> there were no really good options. Again, I had a great response, with 
>> it upping her appetite dramatically, and keeping the sarcoma in a 
>> shrunken state with far less discharge and swelling than prior to the 
>> administration of the Winstrol. Her liver enzymes went through the 
>> roof and the vet (a very good friend of mine who is the head of vet 
>> oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel about Winstrol, just 
>> asked if I would agree to discontinue the Winstrol to see if the liver 
>> enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He knew he was on thin ice.)  I 
>> did, for a few weeks, then put her back on. She lived to age 19 with 
>> that sarcoma, because the Winstrol kept her eating, and happy and 
>> strong.
>>
>>
>> One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was 
>> likely the stupid vet research publication which likely started the 
>> whole ?liver? scare. Look it up because I cannot attach it to this 
>> email as it will not go through. The title is, ?Hepatotoxicity of 
>> stanozolol in cats? by Kenneth R. Harkin, et. al. in JAVMA, Vol. 217, 
>> No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in this study, the authors put 
>> the cats on a ?loading dose? of 25 mg intramuscularly, then 2 mg a day 
>> by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for starters, you see that for some 
>> reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES the normal dose, and them 
>> kept them on at least TWO TIMES the normal dosefor the rest of the 
>> study. Even then, here are some telltale pieces of information:
>>
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 2:29:17 -0500
>> From: To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:  Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>> 	Stanzolol
>> Message-ID: <20161004032917.EGY3O.934.root at pamxwww04-z01>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> With some vets we have to get aggressive for the sake of our babies. 
>> Either that or change vets.  My problem is that being in a small town, 
>> we don't have may vets to choose from.  My current vet seems more 
>> agreeable than the last one plus she is not always out on a farm call 
>> when I need her.
>>
>>
>> ---- Ardy Robertson  wrote:
>>> Hi Sherri - when you go in again why don't you just ask the vet to 
>>> humor you
>>> and let you try doxycycline just so that you can feel like you tried
>>> everything for Bogey. Maybe he will give in if you keep asking. When 
>>> I
>>> changed vets during Tigger's treatment I told them flat out that I 
>>> was going
>>> to be a steady customer for a while and I wanted all 4 of the vets to 
>>> be
>>> aware of Tigger's condition and to please give me what I needed. I 
>>> told them
>>> that Amani was helping me and basically that I wanted to call the 
>>> shots and
>>> they were okay with it (to my surprise). I am normally a very 
>>> mild-mannered
>>> person but when it came to my Tigger Baby's life, I was bold!!  Thank 
>>> you
>>> again Amani - we almost succeeded with Tigger, and if I had gotten 
>>> the
>>> Winstrol sooner I think we would have :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Ardy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
>>> Of
>>> Sherri Godschalk
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:54 PM
>>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
>>> Stanzolol
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he could
>>> survive from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when you 
>>> saw
>>> his gums were pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so 
>>> much about
>>> you. So your vet knew of the treatment but was afraid of it. 
>>> Hopefully the
>>> next FELV cat they saw in their office, they remembered the success 
>>> that you
>>> experienced and prescribed accordingly. How lucky that you had the 
>>> knowledge
>>> you did, the confidence to respectfully challenge the ones telling 
>>> you there
>>> was no hope. Zander was one lucky kitty.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't say that I don't worry about the side effects of the drugs 
>>> Bogey is
>>> taking. But I understand that he has to survive THIS first. I am not 
>>> so sure
>>> that my vet has anything against using Doxycicline as much as he just
>>> doesn't see a need for it yet. What test was run on Zander to check 
>>> the
>>> liver enzymes you mentioned?
>>>
>>>
>>> Getting the message out about this drug and it's positive response in 
>>> FELV
>>> anemic cats is something I truly hope happens. When my vet gave me 
>>> this pill
>>> for Bogey, I had no idea what it was. He told me it was a steroid 
>>> that body
>>> builders take. I ran home, gave the cat the pill, sat down at my 
>>> computer
>>> and Googled "Felv Stanzolol" and this site came up. I have written a 
>>> bit
>>> about my experience thus far here, and on a Facebook page for FIV and 
>>> FELV
>>> cats. But it makes me feel bad for the people that read it and get 
>>> hopeful,
>>> go to their vets and get the "doesn't help", "bad for livers" or just 
>>> "No".
>>> I know it is very early in Bogey's treatment and she may not continue 
>>> to get
>>> better with just what she is taking. But I am glad for every moment 
>>> that I
>>> have with her. I hope I have hundreds and thousands more.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing the story about Zander. Amazing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Felvtalk  >
>>> Reply-To:
>>>>
>>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:11 PM
>>> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  "
>>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on 
>>> Stanzolol
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating 
>>> disease,
>>> made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to 
>>> just
>>> putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually 
>>> down to 5
>>> initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his 
>>> haemoglobin
>>> was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the 
>>> cells
>>> in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see 
>>> that
>>> they were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a
>>> reaction, so I was told he couldn't have any more transfusions, as 
>>> the next
>>> one would kill him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that to 
>>> be
>>> true. (In Canada, they didn't test for blood type at the time - don't 
>>> know
>>> if they do now.)
>>>
>>>
>>> After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI 
>>> (or
>>> whatever it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by 
>>> chance,
>>> opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because 
>>> his
>>> haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood
>>> transfusion, back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him 
>>> soon. He
>>> was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn't doing a thing for 
>>> his cell
>>> lines, which were all depressed - with the most critical being the 
>>> red
>>> cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I 
>>> gave him
>>> some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his ears 
>>> and
>>> gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after starting 
>>> the
>>> Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down.
>>>
>>>
>>> My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really, 
>>> what
>>> are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept 
>>> slowly
>>> but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of 
>>> danger
>>> and then into the normal reference range for all his results.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very 
>>> kindly
>>> told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he 
>>> KNEW
>>> about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has 
>>> been
>>> something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread that 
>>> the
>>> drug could cause liver damage!
>>>
>>>
>>> Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in 
>>> this
>>> situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in 
>>> health
>>> care, my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would 
>>> often
>>> diagnose things before them and/or I would identify problems they 
>>> hadn't
>>> seen) AND very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for 
>>> an
>>> answer, my vets were good enough to back off and let me do my thing. 
>>> They
>>> recognized that, OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the 
>>> Winstrol
>>> didn't work. They faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my
>>> request, and ran the weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were no
>>> positive effects. They saw the positive effects with the WInstrol. 
>>> They
>>> tried on a few occasions to talk me into discontinuing or reducing 
>>> the
>>> Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, but after what Zander had 
>>> been
>>> through - being on the brink of death - I was not open to discussing 
>>> this
>>> option. On a few occasions I would reduce the Winstrol briefly, only 
>>> to see
>>> his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath for a few days or 
>>> weeks,
>>> to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting him back on the
>>> WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared to 
>>> argue with
>>> the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low haematocrit 
>>> and red
>>> cell count, for themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream 
>>> vets.
>>> This is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish I 
>>> could
>>> address a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a paper 
>>> and
>>> submit it for publication in a vet publication.
>>>
>>> I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, getting 
>>> some
>>> Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the cats 
>>> are
>>> in.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the 
>>> Winstrol but
>>> not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre!
>>>
>>> No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this 
>>> hard to be
>>> at least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats.
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>>  My " problem" guy...  Yogi..... is not progressing much with his 
>>> Corneal Ulcer and I have found a vet that is willing to remove his 
>>> eye for a VERY reasonable price ( Hundreds less than the quotes that 
>>> I have gotten in my area.....  I neglected to ask if there was an 
>>> abbreviated version that might not be as extensive as the full 
>>> removal of Eyeball and surrounding musculature given the extreme 
>>> difference in price....
>
>Any of you who has had a Cats eye removed have any recollection of what 
>you might have paid....  I don't want to miss the opportunity to get 
>this done but am shakey about it given his debilitated status( I could 
>lose him)...at the same time ...the eye does not appear to be improving 
>much and even if it does improve the odds favor the problems returning ( 
>if he were not FeLV I would be more inclined to stick it out until the 
>Ulcer healed.... But I am fearful that I might lose the opportunity to 
>have it done at a reasonable price if I tryto keep him on the road to 
>healing the right eye with his current medications*( He's already 
>developing some sinus complications given the proximity of the eye to 
>sinus tracts and the need to drain off fluid from the eye....     Anyone 
>have a recollection of how their cats reacted to surgical removal  of an 
>eye....  eg.. Recovery time.....thanks
>
>
>
>
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>>>
>>
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