[Felvtalk] Removing an Eye....
Margo
toomanykitties2 at earthlink.net
Tue Oct 4 06:21:02 CDT 2016
This double-posted message is blank for me.
-----Original Message-----
>From: ROBERT CHAPEL <bchapel at optonline.net>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2016 4:23 AM
>To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>Cc: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Removing an Eye....
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 04, 2016 at 03:29 AM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
>wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>> (Ardy Robertson)
>> 2. Re: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on Stanzolol
>> (dlgegg at windstream.net)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 21:57:29 -0500
>> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued
>> Improvement for Bogey on
>> Stanzolol
>> Message-ID: <005501d21deb$0c645df0$252d19d0$@centurytel.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Well I live in Osseo, Wisconsin ? and the Osseo Vet Clinic prescribed
>> it for me. They did not have a source for it, but I located one online
>> for them, and the vet who is no longer there, would fill in a form
>> online and order it, then I paid for it with a credit card and it
>> shipped to my house with one refill. After that refill, the vet had to
>> request it online again. The compounding pharmacy I found online was
>> wonderful ? they are called Diamond Back Drugs. I believe it is
>> www.diamondbackdrugs.com and they are physically located in Arizona.
>>
>>
>> The Animal Wellness Center in Mondovi, Wisconsin SAID they would get
>> it for me, only after I begged for it for weeks, but then they never
>> quite got around to finding a source for it, and when I gave them the
>> name of the Diamond Back Drug Company, they never quite got around to
>> ordering it. So I changed to the Osseo Vet Clinic.
>>
>>
>> I do believe the other vets at the Osseo Vet Clinic would prescribe it
>> for me because they were all aware Tigger was ?using? :) and they knew
>> that he made fantastic progress while on it. I just didn?t get him
>> started on it earlier enough and I did not know to give him
>> Doxycycline until it was too late. I think I would demand Doxycycline
>> for him if I had it to do over again because I believe Amani is
>> probably the most knowledgeable about this dreadful disease that the
>> vets have no answer for other than euthanization.
>>
>>
>> That?s my 2 cents worth.
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Amy Glunt
>> Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:07 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>> Stanzolol
>>
>>
>> I think it would be really great if we could all compile a list of
>> vets that prescribe the stanzolol, perhaps by state. That would be a
>> really great resource for people who are looking for this information.
>> I'm calling around my city tomorrow to see if I can find any vets who
>> will prescribe it for my cat.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Oct 1, 2016, at 9:08 PM, Sherri Godschalk > wrote:
>>
>> Had to shorten this?hope it doesn?t post twice as it went to the
>> moderator because of size.
>>
>>
>> Good to know about the liver test. I will NOT mention it to my vet.
>>
>> Since this whole process has started for Bogey and I, I often wonder
>> what logic is used when saying that the side affects from taking the
>> Stanzolol are liver issues, but the side effect of not taking it, is
>> death. I know for me personally, if I was sick and facing this
>> decision, I know what I would do without question. Believe it or not,
>> I read that exact paper you are describing when Bogey was first
>> prescribed the Stanzolol. (Google search) I felt pretty defeated
>> (although many of the terms were over my head) after reading it. I did
>> not notice the dosages though. Doesn?t sound like a very scientific
>> study does it. Maybe we should start our own. Post the names of vets
>> who are willing to prescribe it as well as the results each person has
>> with their pet that is taking it. There again, I am way out in front
>> of myself here because Bogey is not thriving but she did just run into
>> the room with a Q-tip in her mouth (her favorite toy) and 60 days ago
>> she could barely walk into the r
>> oom without laying down. She has also steadily gained weight. Over a
>> pound which doesn?t sound like much but she barely weighed 5 pounds to
>> begin with. Life is still happening here.
>>
>>
>> It does seem like there is secrecy surrounding vets prescribing
>> Stanzolol. Almost like I am scoring some heroin or something. (no I am
>> not a drug user) From what you found with your other cat, clearly this
>> could be a positive choice for inoperable tumors, and or life
>> extending treatment for senior pets. At any rate, I feel luckier each
>> day that my current vet values the life of my cat enough to try to
>> save her. It sounds like your vet is terrific and that you have a
>> great, long relationship with them. I hope to have the same, one day.
>>
>>
>> Sherri
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk > on behalf of Amani Oakley >
>> Reply-To: >
>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 8:29 PM
>> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org " >
>> Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>> Stanzolol
>>
>>
>> Sherri
>>
>>
>> I wouldn?t recommend you run the liver enzymes. If they rise (and they
>> often do) it will cause your vet to try to get you to stop the
>> Winstrol.
>>
>>
>> I was running a full biochemistry profile along with the full
>> haematology profile on Zander. So tests like ALP, AST, ALT, TBili and
>> DBili are indicators of liver function. With Zander, they rose
>> sharply, but there was simply no other option but to continue. I had
>> done all my research, tried out the two most likely new and promising
>> therapies (LTCI and Interferon) and they were not at all (I mean AT
>> ALL) helpful. So, discontinuing the Winstrol meant certain death for
>> Zander. I am so glad I ignored the liver enzymes. They settled down on
>> their own, and Zander never had any liver problems after almost a FULL
>> YEAR on Winstrol.
>>
>>
>> I had another cat with a nasal sarcoma, who was 16 when she got the
>> sarcoma and a tiny skinny thing. I put her on Winstrol because again,
>> there were no really good options. Again, I had a great response, with
>> it upping her appetite dramatically, and keeping the sarcoma in a
>> shrunken state with far less discharge and swelling than prior to the
>> administration of the Winstrol. Her liver enzymes went through the
>> roof and the vet (a very good friend of mine who is the head of vet
>> oncology and a brilliant man) knowing how I feel about Winstrol, just
>> asked if I would agree to discontinue the Winstrol to see if the liver
>> enzymes would reduce. (Very gently. He knew he was on thin ice.) I
>> did, for a few weeks, then put her back on. She lived to age 19 with
>> that sarcoma, because the Winstrol kept her eating, and happy and
>> strong.
>>
>>
>> One of the smart folks on this chatline, recently sent me what was
>> likely the stupid vet research publication which likely started the
>> whole ?liver? scare. Look it up because I cannot attach it to this
>> email as it will not go through. The title is, ?Hepatotoxicity of
>> stanozolol in cats? by Kenneth R. Harkin, et. al. in JAVMA, Vol. 217,
>> No. 5, September 1, 2000. Bizarrely, in this study, the authors put
>> the cats on a ?loading dose? of 25 mg intramuscularly, then 2 mg a day
>> by mouth, every 12 hours. So, just for starters, you see that for some
>> reason, they started the cats on TEN TIMES the normal dose, and them
>> kept them on at least TWO TIMES the normal dosefor the rest of the
>> study. Even then, here are some telltale pieces of information:
>>
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 2:29:17 -0500
>> From: To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>> Stanzolol
>> Message-ID: <20161004032917.EGY3O.934.root at pamxwww04-z01>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> With some vets we have to get aggressive for the sake of our babies.
>> Either that or change vets. My problem is that being in a small town,
>> we don't have may vets to choose from. My current vet seems more
>> agreeable than the last one plus she is not always out on a farm call
>> when I need her.
>>
>>
>> ---- Ardy Robertson wrote:
>>> Hi Sherri - when you go in again why don't you just ask the vet to
>>> humor you
>>> and let you try doxycycline just so that you can feel like you tried
>>> everything for Bogey. Maybe he will give in if you keep asking. When
>>> I
>>> changed vets during Tigger's treatment I told them flat out that I
>>> was going
>>> to be a steady customer for a while and I wanted all 4 of the vets to
>>> be
>>> aware of Tigger's condition and to please give me what I needed. I
>>> told them
>>> that Amani was helping me and basically that I wanted to call the
>>> shots and
>>> they were okay with it (to my surprise). I am normally a very
>>> mild-mannered
>>> person but when it came to my Tigger Baby's life, I was bold!! Thank
>>> you
>>> again Amani - we almost succeeded with Tigger, and if I had gotten
>>> the
>>> Winstrol sooner I think we would have :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Ardy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Sherri Godschalk
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:54 PM
>>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>>> Stanzolol
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh my gosh Amani! What an incredible story. The chances that he could
>>> survive from where he was. I cannot imagine the joy you felt when you
>>> saw
>>> his gums were pink. What a long road for the both of you. Says so
>>> much about
>>> you. So your vet knew of the treatment but was afraid of it.
>>> Hopefully the
>>> next FELV cat they saw in their office, they remembered the success
>>> that you
>>> experienced and prescribed accordingly. How lucky that you had the
>>> knowledge
>>> you did, the confidence to respectfully challenge the ones telling
>>> you there
>>> was no hope. Zander was one lucky kitty.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't say that I don't worry about the side effects of the drugs
>>> Bogey is
>>> taking. But I understand that he has to survive THIS first. I am not
>>> so sure
>>> that my vet has anything against using Doxycicline as much as he just
>>> doesn't see a need for it yet. What test was run on Zander to check
>>> the
>>> liver enzymes you mentioned?
>>>
>>>
>>> Getting the message out about this drug and it's positive response in
>>> FELV
>>> anemic cats is something I truly hope happens. When my vet gave me
>>> this pill
>>> for Bogey, I had no idea what it was. He told me it was a steroid
>>> that body
>>> builders take. I ran home, gave the cat the pill, sat down at my
>>> computer
>>> and Googled "Felv Stanzolol" and this site came up. I have written a
>>> bit
>>> about my experience thus far here, and on a Facebook page for FIV and
>>> FELV
>>> cats. But it makes me feel bad for the people that read it and get
>>> hopeful,
>>> go to their vets and get the "doesn't help", "bad for livers" or just
>>> "No".
>>> I know it is very early in Bogey's treatment and she may not continue
>>> to get
>>> better with just what she is taking. But I am glad for every moment
>>> that I
>>> have with her. I hope I have hundreds and thousands more.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing the story about Zander. Amazing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Felvtalk >
>>> Reply-To:
>>>>
>>> Date: Friday, September 30, 2016 at 6:11 PM
>>> To: "felvtalk at felineleukemia.org "
>>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Continued Improvement for Bogey on
>>> Stanzolol
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, Sherri. There's no question this is a frustrating, devastating
>>> disease,
>>> made far far worse by vets lacking in knowledge, and committed to
>>> just
>>> putting down FeLV cats. Sherri, Zander's haematocrit was actually
>>> down to 5
>>> initially, and he had to be placed in an oxygen tent because his
>>> haemoglobin
>>> was so low his body would have had trouble transporting oxygen to the
>>> cells
>>> in his body. I gave him blood transfusions initially, but could see
>>> that
>>> they were only temporary stopgaps, and after the second one, he had a
>>> reaction, so I was told he couldn't have any more transfusions, as
>>> the next
>>> one would kill him. As a former medical technologist, I knew that to
>>> be
>>> true. (In Canada, they didn't test for blood type at the time - don't
>>> know
>>> if they do now.)
>>>
>>>
>>> After trying Zander on a course of Interferon and a course of LTCI
>>> (or
>>> whatever it is called - I always mix up the letters), I totally by
>>> chance,
>>> opened up my drawer and rummaged through it in desperation because
>>> his
>>> haematocrit had dropped from a high of 16 after his second blood
>>> transfusion, back down to 10, and I knew I was going to lose him
>>> soon. He
>>> was on Doxycycline and Prednisone, but it wasn't doing a thing for
>>> his cell
>>> lines, which were all depressed - with the most critical being the
>>> red
>>> cells/haematocrit numbers. Imagine my total surprise when, after I
>>> gave him
>>> some old Winstrol I found in the drawer, I started noticing his ears
>>> and
>>> gums taking on a pink hue and when I tested him 3 days after starting
>>> the
>>> Winstrol, the haematocrit had gone up instead of steadily down.
>>>
>>>
>>> My surprise grew, and finally overcame my skepticism (I mean, really,
>>> what
>>> are the odds that I discovered a cure???) and Zander's results kept
>>> slowly
>>> but steadily rising for months and months until he was finally out of
>>> danger
>>> and then into the normal reference range for all his results.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, after a year, when I told the internal specialist who had very
>>> kindly
>>> told me there was no hope with this disease, imagine my shock that he
>>> KNEW
>>> about Winstrol and said that I had gone "old-school" and this has
>>> been
>>> something they used to use for this disease until "word" spread that
>>> the
>>> drug could cause liver damage!
>>>
>>>
>>> Frankly, after reading about all the experiences of so many people in
>>> this
>>> situation, I realize how lucky I am. Because of my background in
>>> health
>>> care, my very long relationship with my vet clinic (which I would
>>> often
>>> diagnose things before them and/or I would identify problems they
>>> hadn't
>>> seen) AND very likely, my prickly personality/refusal to take no for
>>> an
>>> answer, my vets were good enough to back off and let me do my thing.
>>> They
>>> recognized that, OBVIOUSLY, they had nothing to offer me if the
>>> Winstrol
>>> didn't work. They faithfully tried the Interferon and the LTCI at my
>>> request, and ran the weekly bloodwork, and agreed that there were no
>>> positive effects. They saw the positive effects with the WInstrol.
>>> They
>>> tried on a few occasions to talk me into discontinuing or reducing
>>> the
>>> Winstrol when the liver enzymes increased, but after what Zander had
>>> been
>>> through - being on the brink of death - I was not open to discussing
>>> this
>>> option. On a few occasions I would reduce the Winstrol briefly, only
>>> to see
>>> his haematology drop. I would then hold my breath for a few days or
>>> weeks,
>>> to let the liver enzymes settle a bit, before getting him back on the
>>> WInstrol. However, I don't think any of the vets were prepared to
>>> argue with
>>> the obvious success. They had seen the unbelievably low haematocrit
>>> and red
>>> cell count, for themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just don't know how we can get this message across to mainstream
>>> vets.
>>> This is NOT an evil drug which must be avoided at all costs. I wish I
>>> could
>>> address a vet convention. If I had LITTLE TIME, I would write a paper
>>> and
>>> submit it for publication in a vet publication.
>>>
>>> I get angered when I hear about all the trouble everyone has, getting
>>> some
>>> Winstrol for their cats, despite the desperate circumstances the cats
>>> are
>>> in.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sherri, the odd thing for you is that your vet is okay with the
>>> Winstrol but
>>> not the Doxycycline. Really bizarre!
>>>
>>> No wonder underground markets flourish. It just shouldn't be this
>>> hard to be
>>> at least given an opportunity and a bit of hope to save our cats.
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>> My " problem" guy... Yogi..... is not progressing much with his
>>> Corneal Ulcer and I have found a vet that is willing to remove his
>>> eye for a VERY reasonable price ( Hundreds less than the quotes that
>>> I have gotten in my area..... I neglected to ask if there was an
>>> abbreviated version that might not be as extensive as the full
>>> removal of Eyeball and surrounding musculature given the extreme
>>> difference in price....
>
>Any of you who has had a Cats eye removed have any recollection of what
>you might have paid.... I don't want to miss the opportunity to get
>this done but am shakey about it given his debilitated status( I could
>lose him)...at the same time ...the eye does not appear to be improving
>much and even if it does improve the odds favor the problems returning (
>if he were not FeLV I would be more inclined to stick it out until the
>Ulcer healed.... But I am fearful that I might lose the opportunity to
>have it done at a reasonable price if I tryto keep him on the road to
>healing the right eye with his current medications*( He's already
>developing some sinus complications given the proximity of the eye to
>sinus tracts and the need to drain off fluid from the eye.... Anyone
>have a recollection of how their cats reacted to surgical removal of an
>eye.... eg.. Recovery time.....thanks
>
>
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