[Felvtalk] FW: different types of Felv

[Amani Oakley]

Ardy

Thank you for your nice compliment. I think that the problem is that doctors and vets work in a world where they are well aware of the extreme and potent dangers posed by microorganisms. They presume that the rest of us know it too, but they don’t realize that precisely BECAUSE of the very effectiveness of vaccines, many diseases are rare now, so people dismiss them as not a big risk or not very dangerous. For example, I had to recently explain to my niece that German measles isn’t just a disease where you get a skin rash over your skin for a few days and then it disappears. I had to explain to her that German measles was once the cause of more than 20,000 babies born with severe defects such as major deformities, mental retardation, deafness, blindness, etc. or they died in utero – that was in 1964. I am not old enough to have this in my personal memory banks, but this knowledge and respect of the dangerousness of the virus, comes from my Microbiology training. Doctors and vets all learned this too and because they are reminded on a daily basis of the dangerousness of the world of microbes, I think they lose touch with the rest of the world who hears very little about these infections now, and thus (a) never developed a healthy fear of these diseases and (b) assume that the diseases must no longer be around or no longer be a problem. They are around and just waiting for that chink in the armour, to re-establish themselves, as we saw in the case of the measles outbreak in Disneyworld. German measles was the Zika virus of yesteryear (except measles was far more prevalent) and the only reason we aren’t as panicked about it now as we are about Zika, is thanks to an effective vaccine for measles.

However, Ardy, I am not sure about the FeLV vaccine. First, I understand that there are several different types of vaccines available. Second, the problem is that the vaccine is not effective if the cat already has the infection. I have found an Information Sheet from the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery (2013), which I will send to you directly, since I cannot attach things to emails on this chatline. Bottom line seems to be a recommendation to vaccinate as long as the status of the cat is tested first and is negative, and other cats in the house are similarly tested and are negative. However, they do red flag the fact that there are a bunch of different vaccines and most of the testing of those vaccines was only done by the company making the vaccine (ie – those who stand to benefit from the sale of the vaccine) and there are few studies comparing the effectiveness of the vaccines against one another.

I promise to keep digging but for now, I have too many other urgent fires I must put out at work! (I haven’t left the office before midnight for at least 3 weeks now.)

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
Sent: June-11-16 2:05 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

See --- if the vets office ever explained anything like what you just did, I would realize the risk is worth it, but they don’t explain things. So you feel the FeLV vaccine is worth doing then? They sort of steered me against it at the store, and the shelter where Topaz came from. Topaz is about 13 months old now, according to the shelter’s vet’s best guess – I suppose based on her teeth?

Thanks,
Ardy



From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:13 PM
To: Margo <toomanykitties2 at earthlink.net<mailto:toomanykitties2 at earthlink.net>>; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position. Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we came from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now have under control. The only reason that people can now get away with avoiding vaccines, whether that is in people or in animals, is because they are dependent on the herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about getting German measles if all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t need to worry about vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the neighbourhood dogs and cats are vaccinated.

I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this. People are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the most effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely indoor, and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk is probably low and are probably okay to decide not to vaccinate regularly, with the important proviso Margo intelligently pointed out that sometimes animals get out despite our best efforts. Margo is also bang on when she cautions about the whiney world we live in where a mother will point to a scratch her precious child got while interacting with your cat and insist on testing to ensure that her coddled child is not going to die from your dirty animal. You’d better believe that in a contest between an animal’s life and a human being who has been “harmed” by contact with the animal – no matter how teensy weensy and inconsequential that harm may appear, or how unlikely it is that the animal is infected – that animal will die. You can hire the best lawyers in the country and pour as money as you’ve got into defending your animal, but it is an entirely lost cause. There isn’t a court in the world who will rule that the life of your cat isn’t worth the peace of mind of the mother and child.

Many vets agree that annual vaccinations are no longer needed, especially with indoor animals, but check with the laws in your area and don’t run afoul of them if you can help it. And don’t take for granted the power of the microorganisms that attack animals and humans. With animals, unfortunately, vaccine manufacturers likely rush a vaccine into production well before it reaches the level of proof and safety we expect in human medicine, and thus, for diseases like FeLV, the vaccine is iffy. However, considering what we all know – how lethal FeLV can be and how little is in the arsenal to fight it – it is not surprising that someone decided a partially or sometimes effective vaccine is better than no vaccine at all, until something better comes along. Same goes with rabies – it is lethal and a terrible and painful way to die and very transmissible. Again, the only reason people are taking chances with rabies now is because of the effectiveness of the rabies vaccine – most of us luckily never have seen an animal infected with rabies. So we get complacent. However, as Margo pointed out, in animal species who are not pet species and thus don’t have a high vaccination rate (like raccoons, foxes and skunks) rabies is still a significant threat. Where our animals may come in contact with skunks, raccoons and foxes, even inadvertently, it is not wise to have unvaccinated dogs and cats, though I agree that annual vaccinations are probably not necessary. As for vets and dog groomers, they may not ask if animals have been vaccinated because it was long the norm and the majority of people had vaccinated animals. With the spread of anti-vaccination messages, I predict this will soon enough become a problem again. (Just remember the measles outbreak in Disneyworld last year or the year before – too many complacent people assuming that measles as no longer a threat.) Just contemplate what the rabies vaccine has managed to accomplish – there are parts of the world that are completely rabies free (like Australia where Johnny Depp recently had his run-in with the Prime Minister over this). This isn’t because rabies just up and disappeared people! It’s because Australia is an island so it has a contained land mass surrounded by water, and no new animals can wander in from a neighbouring country, and with a long and aggressive rabies vaccination program (including putting rabies vaccine laced food out for wild animals as we do in Ontario too), they have managed to eradicate the disease in the entire country. And that’s of course why Australia got so snitty with Johnny Depp who smuggled in his dogs (not that I don’t sympathize).

Do your own research into the history of the infections brought under control by vaccinations, learn how they work, and don’t listen to anti-vaxxers! I have yet to meet one who had anywhere near the grasp of the body and the immune system as I do (and I no longer work in the health care community), and I can argue circles around their logic and lack of knowledge. I agree that with our animals, I suspect that vets in the past took annual vaccines for granted, and they are probably not needed annually, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Amani


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