[Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Sat Jun 11 13:05:16 CDT 2016

See --- if the vets office ever explained anything like what you just did, I would realize the risk is worth it, but they don’t explain things. So you feel the FeLV vaccine is worth doing then? They sort of steered me against it at the store, and the shelter where Topaz came from. Topaz is about 13 months old now, according to the shelter’s vet’s best guess – I suppose based on her teeth?

Thanks,

Ardy

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani Oakley
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2016 12:13 PM
To: Margo <toomanykitties2 at earthlink.net>; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position. Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we came from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now have under control. The only reason that people can now get away with avoiding vaccines, whether that is in people or in animals, is because they are dependent on the herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about getting German measles if all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t need to worry about vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the neighbourhood dogs and cats are vaccinated.

I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this. People are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the most effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely indoor, and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk is probably low and are probably okay to decide not to vaccinate regularly, with the important proviso Margo intelligently pointed out that sometimes animals get out despite our best efforts. Margo is also bang on when she cautions about the whiney world we live in where a mother will point to a scratch her precious child got while interacting with your cat and insist on testing to ensure that her coddled child is not going to die from your dirty animal. You’d better believe that in a contest between an animal’s life and a human being who has been “harmed” by contact with the animal – no matter how teensy weensy and inconsequential that harm may appear, or how unlikely it is that the animal is infected – that animal will die. You can hire the best lawyers in the country and pour as money as you’ve got into defending your animal, but it is an entirely lost cause. There isn’t a court in the world who will rule that the life of your cat isn’t worth the peace of mind of the mother and child.

Many vets agree that annual vaccinations are no longer needed, especially with indoor animals, but check with the laws in your area and don’t run afoul of them if you can help it. And don’t take for granted the power of the microorganisms that attack animals and humans. With animals, unfortunately, vaccine manufacturers likely rush a vaccine into production well before it reaches the level of proof and safety we expect in human medicine, and thus, for diseases like FeLV, the vaccine is iffy. However, considering what we all know – how lethal FeLV can be and how little is in the arsenal to fight it – it is not surprising that someone decided a partially or sometimes effective vaccine is better than no vaccine at all, until something better comes along. Same goes with rabies – it is lethal and a terrible and painful way to die and very transmissible. Again, the only reason people are taking chances with rabies now is because of the effectiveness of the rabies vaccine – most of us luckily never have seen an animal infected with rabies. So we get complacent. However, as Margo pointed out, in animal species who are not pet species and thus don’t have a high vaccination rate (like raccoons, foxes and skunks) rabies is still a significant threat. Where our animals may come in contact with skunks, raccoons and foxes, even inadvertently, it is not wise to have unvaccinated dogs and cats, though I agree that annual vaccinations are probably not necessary. As for vets and dog groomers, they may not ask if animals have been vaccinated because it was long the norm and the majority of people had vaccinated animals. With the spread of anti-vaccination messages, I predict this will soon enough become a problem again. (Just remember the measles outbreak in Disneyworld last year or the year before – too many complacent people assuming that measles as no longer a threat.) Just contemplate what the rabies vaccine has managed to accomplish – there are parts of the world that are completely rabies free (like Australia where Johnny Depp recently had his run-in with the Prime Minister over this). This isn’t because rabies just up and disappeared people! It’s because Australia is an island so it has a contained land mass surrounded by water, and no new animals can wander in from a neighbouring country, and with a long and aggressive rabies vaccination program (including putting rabies vaccine laced food out for wild animals as we do in Ontario too), they have managed to eradicate the disease in the entire country. And that’s of course why Australia got so snitty with Johnny Depp who smuggled in his dogs (not that I don’t sympathize).

Do your own research into the history of the infections brought under control by vaccinations, learn how they work, and don’t listen to anti-vaxxers! I have yet to meet one who had anywhere near the grasp of the body and the immune system as I do (and I no longer work in the health care community), and I can argue circles around their logic and lack of knowledge. I agree that with our animals, I suspect that vets in the past took annual vaccines for granted, and they are probably not needed annually, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Margo
Sent: June-09-16 6:29 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Sorry, I KNOW I'm sounding very PRO vaccine, but I'm not. I've just seen the consequences of not vaccinating. And with rabies, it isn't just that the critter can get sick and die from something preventable. There's still PLENTY of rabies in wildlife, and wildlife is closer to us that ever, especially the most important vectors, being skunks and raccoons. Raccoons often occupy attics. Skunks cn take up residence under porches.

I worked at an Animal Control facility. Just quickly, animals get out. There are fires, and disasters. Sometimes when an animal has to be caught, a human may be scratched or bitten. Quarantine isn't always an option, and if the anial has injured someone, and that someone requests it, the animal MUST be tested.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ardy Robertson 
Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:18 AM 
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org>  
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv 

Yes, with the exception of Cally who is vaccinated, my cats are indoor-only except when I carry them outside on walks. The vet said it is possible that a mouse or bat could get inside, but not too likely.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Dagner
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:42 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

That book I mentioned by Dr. Martin Goldstein mentions all kinds of illnesses that happened to animals coinciding with vaccines. Many vets believe that after a couple of vaccines they are protected for life, Goldstein does something called tittering so he can check the antibodies of his patients to know if they need to have another vaccine. How likely is it that our cats will get rabies? Slim to none and slim is out of town! Sorry about Scotchie. :( Horrible. 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Ardy Robertson
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:43 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I’m not wild about rabies vaccinations either. My Butterscotch (“Scotchie”) died right after having a rabies vaccination!

Ardy

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Dagner
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:33 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I have never heard of that, and I have read a lot about it.  And if they can’t determine the difference how do they know one is more fatal? What did he say about keeping them healthy? I still think that is the most important thing of all, stop problems before they start. Has anyone’s vet ever advised them against vaccines for a FELV cat, or minimal vaccines, or spacing them out, being they have a compromised immune system? 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Realissa Dekraunti
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2016 4:02 PM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk at felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I took my cats to a new vet, today. He said that FELV A is less fatal than FELV C. He said there is no way to determine which type of FELV they have. Is it true? I think people on this forum know more than many vets. 

Thanks a lot 

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