[Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Thu Jun 9 14:04:35 CDT 2016

Everyone has a choice in how they chose to proceed with their indoor FELV
cats. I never said I was anti vaccine, I said I personally would not have
given Tucker more vaccines if I had known then what I know now. He started
having infections after he got them and our world went downhill from there,
his immune system was already compromised and I wish I would not have added
the extra stress to it. My choice. I said I am very concerned about the
rabies vaccine for my tiny, older (inside and/or never out of my sight) dog
since she has always had very bad reactions to them and now has a large
lump on her side that will not go away, I am looking into my options, and
will weigh them very carefully to decide what I feel comfortable with. My
choice. Since we now know that there are several people on this list who
along with their vets, might not choose to vaccinate their sick or elderly
animals, and for obviously concerning reasons, I would hope you are not
using the term anti-vaxxers to refer to myself or to them? In the event
anyone is interested, I found an integrative vet in Tampa and it is a hike
for me but she does not do vaccines all at once, she spaces them out,
writes exemptions for pets that have had serious adverse reactions, or have
serious illnesses where their heath could be compromised by vaccines, and
will do the titer with one T test, for your piece of mind that your pet
still has enough antibodies for protection, the test is not recognized as a
replacement for the shot at least where I live, but at least it is
something for me whether they recognize it or not. It would be nice to have
her examine Daizy and talk with me about my options for rabies and see how
she feels about giving them again when it is time. She also gives something
called Lyssin 30c that she gives at the same time as the rabies vaccine to
try to protect against the adverse side effects it can have. When I get a
new kitty I will give her the vaccines that I think she needs which will be
very few for an inside cat, and I will do it in the safest way it can
possibly be done. I will give her the 3 year rabies as required, if she
becomes ill for whatever reason and her immune system is compromised, or
she has a serious reaction, I will weigh my options carefully again. And I
will pray she is not one that develops cancer from it. And I will continue
to hope that they discover that they can stretch it beyond 3 years, and
that maybe like they discovered with the every year scenario that it wasn’t
really necessary.

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of
*Amani Oakley
*Sent:* Thursday, June 09, 2016 1:13 PM
*To:* Margo; felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I am VERY pro-vaccine. I have a lengthy and extensive background in
Microbiology and there is a very solid scientific basis for my position.
Unfortunately, my experience is that many many people who are anti-vaccine
don’t understand how vaccines work and certainly don’t understand where we
came from and just how many animals and people died from diseases we now
have under control. The only reason that people can now get away with
avoiding vaccines, whether that is in people or in animals, is because they
are dependent on the herd immunity. You don’t need to worry too much about
getting German measles if all your neighbours are vaccinated, and you don’t
need to worry about vaccinating your dog for rabies if all the
neighbourhood dogs and cats are vaccinated.

I completely agree and echo Margo’s observations. Be careful about this.
People are deciding to forego vaccinations because they don’t see the awful
repercussions often enough to be reminded of why vaccination is one of the
most effective medical interventions in ever. If your cats are completely
indoor, and you aren’t introducing new ones in all the time, then your risk
is probably low and are probably okay to decide not to vaccinate regularly,
with the important proviso Margo intelligently pointed out that sometimes
animals get out despite our best efforts. Margo is also bang on when she
cautions about the whiney world we live in where a mother will point to a
scratch her precious child got while interacting with your cat and insist
on testing to ensure that her coddled child is not going to die from your
dirty animal. You’d better believe that in a contest between an animal’s
life and a human being who has been “harmed” by contact with the animal –
no matter how teensy weensy and inconsequential that harm may appear, or
how unlikely it is that the animal is infected – that animal will die. You
can hire the best lawyers in the country and pour as money as you’ve got
into defending your animal, but it is an entirely lost cause. There isn’t a
court in the world who will rule that the life of your cat isn’t worth the
peace of mind of the mother and child.

Many vets agree that annual vaccinations are no longer needed, especially
with indoor animals, but check with the laws in your area and don’t run
afoul of them if you can help it. And don’t take for granted the power of
the microorganisms that attack animals and humans. With animals,
unfortunately, vaccine manufacturers likely rush a vaccine into production
well before it reaches the level of proof and safety we expect in human
medicine, and thus, for diseases like FeLV, the vaccine is iffy. However,
considering what we all know – how lethal FeLV can be and how little is in
the arsenal to fight it – it is not surprising that someone decided a
partially or sometimes effective vaccine is better than no vaccine at all,
until something better comes along. Same goes with rabies – it is lethal
and a terrible and painful way to die and very transmissible. Again, the
only reason people are taking chances with rabies now is because of the
effectiveness of the rabies vaccine – most of us luckily never have seen an
animal infected with rabies. So we get complacent. However, as Margo
pointed out, in animal species who are not pet species and thus don’t have
a high vaccination rate (like raccoons, foxes and skunks) rabies is still a
significant threat. Where our animals may come in contact with skunks,
raccoons and foxes, even inadvertently, it is not wise to have unvaccinated
dogs and cats, though I agree that annual vaccinations are probably not
necessary. As for vets and dog groomers, they may not ask if animals have
been vaccinated because it was long the norm and the majority of people had
vaccinated animals. With the spread of anti-vaccination messages, I predict
this will soon enough become a problem again. (Just remember the measles
outbreak in Disneyworld last year or the year before – too many complacent
people assuming that measles as no longer a threat.) Just contemplate what
the rabies vaccine has managed to accomplish – there are parts of the world
that are completely rabies free (like Australia where Johnny Depp recently
had his run-in with the Prime Minister over this). This isn’t because
rabies just up and disappeared people! It’s because Australia is an island
so it has a contained land mass surrounded by water, and no new animals can
wander in from a neighbouring country, and with a long and aggressive
rabies vaccination program (including putting rabies vaccine laced food out
for wild animals as we do in Ontario too), they have managed to eradicate
the disease in the entire country. And that’s of course why Australia got
so snitty with Johnny Depp who smuggled in his dogs (not that I don’t
sympathize).

Do your own research into the history of the infections brought under
control by vaccinations, learn how they work, and don’t listen to
anti-vaxxers! I have yet to meet one who had anywhere near the grasp of the
body and the immune system as I do (and I no longer work in the health care
community), and I can argue circles around their logic and lack of
knowledge. I agree that with our animals, I suspect that vets in the past
took annual vaccines for granted, and they are probably not needed
annually, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

Amani

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org
<felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Margo
*Sent:* June-09-16 6:29 AM
*To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Sorry, I KNOW I'm sounding very PRO vaccine, but I'm not. I've just seen
the consequences of not vaccinating. And with rabies, it isn't just that
the critter can get sick and die from something preventable. There's still
PLENTY of rabies in wildlife, and wildlife is closer to us that ever,
especially the most important vectors, being skunks and raccoons. Raccoons
often occupy attics. Skunks cn take up residence under porches.

I worked at an Animal Control facility. Just quickly, animals get out.
There are fires, and disasters. Sometimes when an animal has to be caught,
a human may be scratched or bitten. Quarantine isn't always an option, and
if the anial has injured someone, and that someone requests it, the animal
MUST be tested.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ardy Robertson
Sent: Jun 9, 2016 12:18 AM
To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

Yes, with the exception of Cally who is vaccinated, my cats are indoor-only
except when I carry them outside on walks. The vet said it is possible that
a mouse or bat could get inside, but not too likely.

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org
<felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rachel Dagner
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 8, 2016 9:42 AM
*To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

That book I mentioned by Dr. Martin Goldstein mentions all kinds of
illnesses that happened to animals coinciding with vaccines. Many vets
believe that after a couple of vaccines they are protected for life,
Goldstein does something called tittering so he can check the antibodies of
his patients to know if they need to have another vaccine. How likely is it
that our cats will get rabies? Slim to none and slim is out of town! Sorry
about Scotchie. L Horrible.

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of
*Ardy Robertson
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 08, 2016 1:43 AM
*To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I’m not wild about rabies vaccinations either. My Butterscotch (“Scotchie”)
died right after having a rabies vaccination!

Ardy

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org
<felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org>] *On Behalf Of *Rachel Dagner
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 7, 2016 3:33 PM
*To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I have never heard of that, and I have read a lot about it.  And if they
can’t determine the difference how do they know one is more fatal? What did
he say about keeping them healthy? I still think that is the most important
thing of all, stop problems before they start. Has anyone’s vet ever
advised them against vaccines for a FELV cat, or minimal vaccines, or
spacing them out, being they have a compromised immune system?

*From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of
*Realissa Dekraunti
*Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2016 4:02 PM
*To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
*Subject:* [Felvtalk] different types of Felv

I took my cats to a new vet, today. He said that FELV A is less fatal than
FELV C. He said there is no way to determine which type of FELV they have.
Is it true? I think people on this forum know more than many vets.

Thanks a lot
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