[Felvtalk] Bogeys Blood Test Today

Wed Dec 21 05:21:32 CST 2016

Thank you Robert. I post that table with her results right out of excel.
Sometimes it runs together on mine too. I have put this on Google Sheets
so I can view it at work too. Here is a link if you would like to see it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/174GWHyj34zZlky9jdU_9TUBz1leosJGvkZO
qFY_d3Cw/edit?usp=sharing

Good luck with your boy too.

Sherri

On 12/21/16, 2:11 AM, "Felvtalk on behalf of ROBERT CHAPEL"
<felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org on behalf of bchapel at optonline.net>
wrote:

>Sherri...
>
>I don't know if it is possible to, perhaps, format the data differently
>but I am having a difficult time
>reading the Blood results...they are all running together....also....
>are the data on the right the older and getting newer as we move to the
>left??  A shame this site doesn't ( at least to my knowledge) have a
>function for making a table ( or including a table when posting) it
>would make matters a LOT easier...
>BTW... While I understand your concerns re: Bogey.... on balance...
>She's looking pretty darn good for a FeLV Kitty...    If my boys blood
>values were that good I'd be quite pleased ( apart from the notable
>LIver Values)..... Hang in there...
>
>
>On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:46 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
>wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today These look worse PG 2
>>       (Sherri Godschalk)
>>    2. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Ardy Robertson)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 20:25:39 -0500
>> From: Sherri Godschalk To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test
>> Today These look worse PG 2
>> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Well I am not sure he noticed some of the increases on page 2 here. It
>> seems
>> like all of these are going the wrong direction. She isn?t showing any
>> jaundice and her gait is much improved but still having some issues
>> with
>> balance. I ask them to run the full battery of blood tests today but
>> it
>> doesn?t look like they did. Do you all agree that these numbers are
>> not
>> better but in fact worse than when they released her on Dec 14th?
>>     Scale 20-Dec 14-Dec 12-Dec
>>  GLU 74-159 122 125 178
>>  BUN 16-36 21 14 23
>>  CREA 08-2.4 1.1 0.8 1.3
>>  BUN/CREA  19 18 18
>>  PHOS 3.1-7.5   4.5
>>  CA 7.8-11.3   9.8  TP 5.7-8.9 8.1 7.9 8.7
>>  ALB 2.2-4.0 3.4 2.9 3.1
>>  GLOB 2.8-5.1 4.7 5 5.6
>>  ALB/GLB  0.7 0.6 0.6
>>  ALT 12-130 581 192 237
>>  ALKP 14-111 81 42 39
>>  GGT 0-4   8   TBIL .0-.9  27.2 27.9
>>  CHOL 65-225   170  AMYL 500-1500   842
>>  LIPA 100-1400   255
>>  NA 150-165   158   K 3.5-5.8   3.4   NA/K    46   CL 112-129   114
>> OSM CALC    318 Sherri
>>
>>
>> From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Randy
>> Henke Reply-To:  Date:  Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 4:54 PM
>> To:  Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today
>>
>> That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that
>> performance with
>> our girl, Curly.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk wrote:
>>> Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself
>>> instead of
>>> sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything looked good
>>> except her
>>> red blood cells have gotten smaller but there are more of them. As
>>> well as him
>>> being concerned about infection since her WBC and NEU are elevated. I
>>> read
>>> that can be from pred and he gave her a shot of it before he sent her
>>> home
>>> last week when normally I gave her a pill each day. He wants me to
>>> start her
>>> back on the Doxy and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I still feel like
>>> it might
>>> be soon on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out of the hospital for
>>> even a
>>> week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood test later if anyone
>>> is
>>> interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go Bogey!
>>>
>>>        Range 20-Dec 12-Dec 26-Oct 30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug
>>>  RBC 6.54 12.2 5.57 4.99 2.54 2.9 2.57 2.43
>>>  HCT 30.3 52.3 30.9 35.1 14.8 17.9 15.3 15.3
>>>  HGB 9.8 16.2 10.2 10.4 5.2 6.2 5.5 5.3
>>>  MCV 35.9 53.1 55.5 70.3 58.3 61.7 59.1 62.6
>>>  MCH 11.8 17.3 18.3 20.8 20.5 21.4 21.4 21.8
>>>  MCHC 28.1 35.8 33 29.6 35.1 34.6 36.2 34.9
>>>  RDW 15 27 23.8 22.2 24.5 25.2 23.7 23.9
>>>  RETIC 3 50 37.3 27.4 89.9 82.1 78.1 61.5
>>>  WBC 2.87 17.02 22.34 8.59 13.05 12.01 14.47 13.46
>>>  NEU 1.48 10.29 15.82 5.42 3.97 3.96 4.07 4.03
>>>  LYM 0.92 6.88 3.98 2.21 7.8 6.81 8.83 7.75
>>>  MONO 0.05 0.67 1.89 0.87 1.16 1.17 1.52 1.58
>>>  EOS 0.17 1.57 0.49 0.08 0.11 0.06 0.004 0.01
>>>  BASO 0.01 0.26 0.16 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0
>>>  PLT 151 800 295 122 28 53 88 50
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 0
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:46:37 -0600
>> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning
>> FELV diagnosis
>> Message-ID: <012c01d25b3c$d67ac0a0$837041e0$@centurytel.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Best of luck to you with Curly ---- just wanted to mention there are
>> appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used
>> with Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a
>> pill every 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can?t remember the
>> name of it.
>>
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
>> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
>> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them.
>> So far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers
>> (about a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7
>> pounds. About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick.
>> She still gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and
>> she is still grooming herself. She wants very little social
>> interaction which is not like her at all and she has very little
>> energy, preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her
>> breathing is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.
>>
>> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail.
>> We'll owe you much if it works.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> I really don?t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
>> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is
>> the only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
>> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>> Hi Amani,
>>
>> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline.
>> I've read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of
>> Winstrol as opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the
>> pills but would be willing to give her the shot would it still work as
>> well?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>>
>> Wishing you luck.
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
>>
>>
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
>> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on
>> Monday.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>>
>> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
>> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much!
>> Do you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound
>> cat? I want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on
>> Monday.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>>
>> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is
>> a corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
>> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
>> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the
>> progenitor cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed
>> by the virus and thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have
>> a life span of 120 days in circulation, so once that is over and they
>> die, then they must be replenished by a steady supply of new cells
>> from the bone marrow.
>>
>> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I
>> use it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard
>> the reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only
>> combination of drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and
>> had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the reference range being
>> something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and
>> interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no
>> change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit,
>> hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use
>> of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don?t
>> work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
>> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>>
>>
>> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
>> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy
>> about prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted
>> experiment was published where cats where given 10 times the
>> recommended dose of Winstrol as a ?loading dose? and developed liver
>> problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a lot of
>> uneducated vets who will either think you are ?unethical? for asking
>> for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid
>> scientific study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing
>> to prescribe it (like in Sherri?s case) they don?t recognize the need
>> to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost
>> of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing rampantly, so in
>> the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing the need
>> for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
>> failure and not likely use it again.)
>>
>>
>> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
>> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
>> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus,
>> if the progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells,
>> white cells and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted
>> to infected cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin
>> will not be effective because it simply encourages those progenitor
>> cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can?t and thus
>> cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat
>> doesn?t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then
>> the erythropoietin might work.)
>>
>>
>> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it
>> effectively in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don?t anything
>> else which fits the bill.
>>
>>
>> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal
>> walls, or other problems with moving food through the intestines. My
>> cat did, and that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and
>> (c) slow bowel movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ?
>> tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day.
>> Worked like a charm.
>>
>>
>> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain
>> death. I had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is
>> only a short-term solution and he wasn?t producing any red cells
>> (reticulocyte count was basically zero ? this is a measure of new red
>> cell production and should be increased in cases of anemia to
>> demonstrate that the body is producing red cells to compensate for the
>> reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with his last blood
>> transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the next
>> one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his
>> haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped
>> to 10 when I ?discovered? an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.
>>
>>
>> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>>
>>
>> Amani
>>
>>
>> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
>> Of Randy Henke
>> Sent: December-16-16 9:15 AM
>> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning
>> FELV diagnosis
>>
>>
>> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
>> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to
>> secondary infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol
>> suppress her immune system even further? I'm very confused about how
>> to proceed.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson  > wrote:
>>
>> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
>> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
>> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> Ardy
>>
>>
>>
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