[Felvtalk] Finding a vet to prescribe Winstrol Southern NY Region...

[ROBERT CHAPEL]

Ardy...
Thank you for the suggestion and the benefit of your experience with DB 
and Winstrol.... I guess I can understand their reticence if they can't 
configure their database to produce that information in a few moments ( 
of course they could be simply disinclined as well which really can't be 
held too much against them either if someone is not placeing an order : 
)   Short sighted Yes... but understandable.
I am going to be gearing up soon ( I expect) for another Winstrol push 
as my Yogi is losing weight and temp is rising.... I've spent so much 
money on the opthalmologist and eye meds I've been holding off on 
additional blood work but can't wait any longer.....   Amani... if you 
happen to read this can you remind me of the reference ( location) for 
the study that recommended against Stanazol due to Liver Enzyme 
abnormalities..... also...did you locate other studies studies 
recommending against Winstrol for the same reason.....   I would like to 
be able to say with "some" authority that the Liver connection relative 
to the potential for Hgb Hct Platelet improvement makes it well worth 
the risk......   More on this later...


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:57 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org 
wrote:

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>
>    1. Re: Availability of Winstrol.... (Ardy Robertson)
>    2. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today (Ardy Robertson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:51:49 -0600
> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Availability of 
> Winstrol....
> Message-ID: <013101d25b3d$903dd630$b0b98290$@centurytel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Robert -- I did call Diamond Back Drugs and asked if they could 
> provide the names/contact information for vets who were willing to 
> prescribe Winstrol and they said could not do that because they work 
> with so many vets and clients from all over, and they figured it would 
> be just too much of a task for them. They are very nice to work with 
> though, so possibly if someone called and said for instance, do you 
> know of a vet in the Cincinnati area that I could go to, maybe they 
> would recommend someone. When I needed Winstrol for Tigger I changed 
> vets because the one would not work with me on it. The new vet, I sort 
> of stepped out of my usual passive self and announced rather boldly 
> that this is what I wanted and if they weren't going to work with me, 
> I would not be using them. I was polite but firm, and it worked.
>
> Ardy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of ROBERT CHAPEL
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 11:38 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Availability of Winstrol....
>
> Randy...
>
> Yes... you DO have a good vet... or a least one that is willing to 
> think outside the litter box..
> I am getting VERY frustrated and soon very angry at the unwillingness 
> of my local vets to have anything to do with Winstrol....  I can not 
> comprehend a  vet having NO reasonable alternative for a dying animal 
> and STILL being unwilling to prescribe a drug that has shown efficacy 
> with this disease....    If my boy starts to go downhill from anemia 
> and the vet still won't prescribe there is going to be a scene...
> At the prices now being charged for Veterinary services I expect a LOT 
> MORE than I am getting at this point...
>
> Have been looking at International sources for the drug and on various 
> bodybuilding sites but these are mostly B.S and one can not be sure if 
> he is getting the real drug........
>
> I recall there being some discussion about  contacting Diamond Back 
> and asking for vets that have requested the drug.....  Did anyone in 
> he forum ever do this ???  I don't recall.....    It's worth a try.... 
> I've used them for other drugs that I have ordered through the shelter 
> where I volunteer
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 09:10 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Randy Henke)
>>
>>
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:10:05 -0600
>> From: Randy Henke To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>> Message-ID:
>> 	
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and 
>> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive 
>> cats.
>> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. 
>> So
>> far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers 
>> (about a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 
>> 7 pounds.
>> About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She 
>> still gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she 
>> is still grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction 
>> which is not like her at all and she has very little energy, 
>> preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her breathing 
>> is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.
>>
>> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. 
>> We'll
>> owe you much if it works.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I really don?t know. I have only had experience with the pills which 
>>> I found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that 
>>> is the only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Randy Henke
>>> *Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM
>>> *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Amani,
>>>
>>> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. 
>>> I've
>>> read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of 
>>> Winstrol as
>>> opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but 
>>> would
>>> be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>>
>>> Wishing you luck.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of *Randy Henke
>>> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on 
>>> Monday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>>
>>> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] *On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of *Randy Henke
>>> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
>>> *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! 
>>> Do
>>> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound 
>>> cat? I
>>> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on 
>>> Monday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley wrote:
>>>
>>> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which 
>>> is a
>>> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
>>> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
>>> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the 
>>> progenitor
>>> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the 
>>> virus and
>>> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 
>>> 120
>>> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they 
>>> must be
>>> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, 
>>> I use
>>> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
>>> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only 
>>> combination of
>>> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a 
>>> haematocrit
>>> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, 
>>> off
>>> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though 
>>> I
>>> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his 
>>> red cell
>>> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I 
>>> stumbled
>>> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but 
>>> they
>>> don?t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
>>> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
>>> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy 
>>> about
>>> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted 
>>> experiment
>>> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose 
>>> of
>>> Winstrol as a ?loading dose? and developed liver problems. So 
>>> between these
>>> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will 
>>> either think
>>> you are ?unethical? for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a 
>>> harmful
>>> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, 
>>> even
>>> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri?s case) they 
>>> don?t
>>> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you 
>>> do get
>>> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
>>> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not 
>>> recognizing
>>> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol 
>>> as a
>>> failure and not likely use it again.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
>>> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
>>> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, 
>>> if the
>>> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white 
>>> cells
>>> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to 
>>> infected
>>> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
>>> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to 
>>> produce
>>> more red cells. However, because they can?t and thus cannot respond 
>>> to the
>>> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn?t have FELV, and 
>>> has
>>> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might 
>>> work.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it 
>>> effectively
>>> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don?t anything else which 
>>> fits the
>>> bill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal 
>>> walls, or
>>> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, 
>>> and
>>> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow 
>>> bowel
>>> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ? tablet of
>>> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like 
>>> a charm.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain 
>>> death. I
>>> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
>>> short-term solution and he wasn?t producing any red cells 
>>> (reticulocyte
>>> count was basically zero ? this is a measure of new red cell 
>>> production and
>>> should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body 
>>> is
>>> producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). 
>>> He had
>>> had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more 
>>> transfusions
>>> were possible since the next one would kill him, and I was all out 
>>> of
>>> options as I watched his haematocrit level drop lower and lower, 
>>> week by
>>> week. It had dropped to 10 when I ?discovered? an old bottle of 
>>> Winstrol in
>>> my drawer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org
>>> ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
>>> *Sent:* December-16-16 9:15 AM
>>> *To:* felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning FELV diagnosis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even 
>>> prescribing
>>> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to 
>>> secondary
>>> infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol suppress 
>>> her
>>> immune system even further? I'm very confused about how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get 
>>> his
>>> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
>>> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>>>
>>> Best of luck!
>>>
>>> Ardy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:57:00 -0600
> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test 
> Today
> Message-ID: <014001d25b3e$4956c910$dc045b30$@centurytel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Best of luck to both Bogey and Curly!! This is great news!
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 3:54 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today
>
>
> That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that 
> performance with our girl, Curly.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk  > wrote:
>
> Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself 
> instead of sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything 
> looked good except her red blood cells have gotten smaller but there 
> are more of them. As well as him being concerned about infection since 
> her WBC and NEU are elevated. I read that can be from pred and he gave 
> her a shot of it before he sent her home last week when normally I 
> gave her a pill each day. He wants me to start her back on the Doxy 
> and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I still feel like it might be soon 
> on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out of the hospital for even a 
> week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood test later if anyone 
> is interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go Bogey!
>
>
>
> 	
> Range
>
> 20-Dec
>
> 12-Dec
>
> 26-Oct
>
> 30-Sep
>
> 16-Sep
>
> 24-Aug
>
>
> RBC
>
> 6.54
>
> 12.2
>
> 5.57
>
> 4.99
>
> 2.54
>
> 2.9
>
> 2.57
>
> 2.43
>
>
> HCT
>
> 30.3
>
> 52.3
>
> 30.9
>
> 35.1
>
> 14.8
>
> 17.9
>
> 15.3
>
> 15.3
>
>
> HGB
>
> 9.8
>
> 16.2
>
> 10.2
>
> 10.4
>
> 5.2
>
> 6.2
>
> 5.5
>
> 5.3
>
>
> MCV
>
> 35.9
>
> 53.1
>
> 55.5
>
> 70.3
>
> 58.3
>
> 61.7
>
> 59.1
>
> 62.6
>
>
> MCH
>
> 11.8
>
> 17.3
>
> 18.3
>
> 20.8
>
> 20.5
>
> 21.4
>
> 21.4
>
> 21.8
>
>
> MCHC
>
> 28.1
>
> 35.8
>
> 33
>
> 29.6
>
> 35.1
>
> 34.6
>
> 36.2
>
> 34.9
>
>
> RDW
>
> 15
>
> 27
>
> 23.8
>
> 22.2
>
> 24.5
>
> 25.2
>
> 23.7
>
> 23.9
>
>
> RETIC
>
> 3
>
> 50
>
> 37.3
>
> 27.4
>
> 89.9
>
> 82.1
>
> 78.1
>
> 61.5
>
>
> WBC
>
> 2.87
>
> 17.02
>
> 22.34
>
> 8.59
>
> 13.05
>
> 12.01
>
> 14.47
>
> 13.46
>
>
> NEU
>
> 1.48
>
> 10.29
>
> 15.82
>
> 5.42
>
> 3.97
>
> 3.96
>
> 4.07
>
> 4.03
>
>
> LYM
>
> 0.92
>
> 6.88
>
> 3.98
>
> 2.21
>
> 7.8
>
> 6.81
>
> 8.83
>
> 7.75
>
>
> MONO
>
> 0.05
>
> 0.67
>
> 1.89
>
> 0.87
>
> 1.16
>
> 1.17
>
> 1.52
>
> 1.58
>
>
> EOS
>
> 0.17
>
> 1.57
>
> 0.49
>
> 0.08
>
> 0.11
>
> 0.06
>
> 0.004
>
> 0.01
>
>
> BASO
>
> 0.01
>
> 0.26
>
> 0.16
>
> 0.01
>
> 0.01
>
> 0.01
>
> 0.01
>
> 0
>
>
> PLT
>
> 151
>
> 800
>
> 295
>
> 122
>
> 28
>
> 53
>
> 88
>
> 50
>
> 							0
>
>
>
>
>
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