[Felvtalk] Bogeys Blood Test Today

ROBERT CHAPEL bchapel at optonline.net
Wed Dec 21 01:11:20 CST 2016


Sherri...

I don't know if it is possible to, perhaps, format the data differently 
but I am having a difficult time
reading the Blood results...they are all running together....also.... 
are the data on the right the older and getting newer as we move to the 
left??  A shame this site doesn't ( at least to my knowledge) have a 
function for making a table ( or including a table when posting) it 
would make matters a LOT easier...
BTW... While I understand your concerns re: Bogey.... on balance... 
She's looking pretty darn good for a FeLV Kitty...    If my boys blood 
values were that good I'd be quite pleased ( apart from the notable 
LIver Values)..... Hang in there...


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:46 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org 
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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today These look worse PG 2
>       (Sherri Godschalk)
>    2. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Ardy Robertson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 20:25:39 -0500
> From: Sherri Godschalk To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test 
> Today These look worse PG 2
> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well I am not sure he noticed some of the increases on page 2 here. It 
> seems
> like all of these are going the wrong direction. She isn?t showing any
> jaundice and her gait is much improved but still having some issues 
> with
> balance. I ask them to run the full battery of blood tests today but 
> it
> doesn?t look like they did. Do you all agree that these numbers are 
> not
> better but in fact worse than when they released her on Dec 14th?
>     Scale 20-Dec 14-Dec 12-Dec
>  GLU 74-159 122 125 178
>  BUN 16-36 21 14 23
>  CREA 08-2.4 1.1 0.8 1.3
>  BUN/CREA  19 18 18
>  PHOS 3.1-7.5   4.5
>  CA 7.8-11.3   9.8  TP 5.7-8.9 8.1 7.9 8.7
>  ALB 2.2-4.0 3.4 2.9 3.1
>  GLOB 2.8-5.1 4.7 5 5.6
>  ALB/GLB  0.7 0.6 0.6
>  ALT 12-130 581 192 237
>  ALKP 14-111 81 42 39
>  GGT 0-4   8   TBIL .0-.9  27.2 27.9
>  CHOL 65-225   170  AMYL 500-1500   842
>  LIPA 100-1400   255
>  NA 150-165   158   K 3.5-5.8   3.4   NA/K    46   CL 112-129   114 
> OSM CALC    318 Sherri
>
>
> From:  Felvtalk  on behalf of Randy
> Henke Reply-To:  Date:  Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 4:54 PM
> To:  Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today
>
> That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that 
> performance with
> our girl, Curly.
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk wrote:
>> Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself 
>> instead of
>> sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything looked good 
>> except her
>> red blood cells have gotten smaller but there are more of them. As 
>> well as him
>> being concerned about infection since her WBC and NEU are elevated. I 
>> read
>> that can be from pred and he gave her a shot of it before he sent her 
>> home
>> last week when normally I gave her a pill each day. He wants me to 
>> start her
>> back on the Doxy and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I still feel like 
>> it might
>> be soon on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out of the hospital for 
>> even a
>> week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood test later if anyone 
>> is
>> interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go Bogey!
>>
>>        Range 20-Dec 12-Dec 26-Oct 30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug
>>  RBC 6.54 12.2 5.57 4.99 2.54 2.9 2.57 2.43
>>  HCT 30.3 52.3 30.9 35.1 14.8 17.9 15.3 15.3
>>  HGB 9.8 16.2 10.2 10.4 5.2 6.2 5.5 5.3
>>  MCV 35.9 53.1 55.5 70.3 58.3 61.7 59.1 62.6
>>  MCH 11.8 17.3 18.3 20.8 20.5 21.4 21.4 21.8
>>  MCHC 28.1 35.8 33 29.6 35.1 34.6 36.2 34.9
>>  RDW 15 27 23.8 22.2 24.5 25.2 23.7 23.9
>>  RETIC 3 50 37.3 27.4 89.9 82.1 78.1 61.5
>>  WBC 2.87 17.02 22.34 8.59 13.05 12.01 14.47 13.46
>>  NEU 1.48 10.29 15.82 5.42 3.97 3.96 4.07 4.03
>>  LYM 0.92 6.88 3.98 2.21 7.8 6.81 8.83 7.75
>>  MONO 0.05 0.67 1.89 0.87 1.16 1.17 1.52 1.58
>>  EOS 0.17 1.57 0.49 0.08 0.11 0.06 0.004 0.01
>>  BASO 0.01 0.26 0.16 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0
>>  PLT 151 800 295 122 28 53 88 50
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 0
>>
>>
>>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:46:37 -0600
> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning 
> FELV diagnosis
> Message-ID: <012c01d25b3c$d67ac0a0$837041e0$@centurytel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Best of luck to you with Curly ---- just wanted to mention there are 
> appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used 
> with Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a 
> pill every 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can?t remember the 
> name of it.
>
>
> Ardy
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and 
> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats. 
> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. 
> So far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers 
> (about a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 
> pounds. About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. 
> She still gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and 
> she is still grooming herself. She wants very little social 
> interaction which is not like her at all and she has very little 
> energy, preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her 
> breathing is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.
>
> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. 
> We'll owe you much if it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>
> Randy
>
>
> I really don?t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I 
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is 
> the only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On 
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: 
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. 
> I've read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of 
> Winstrol as opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the 
> pills but would be willing to give her the shot would it still work as 
> well?
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On 
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: 
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on 
> Monday.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org  ] On 
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: 
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! 
> Do you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound 
> cat? I want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on 
> Monday.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley  > wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is 
> a corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune 
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell 
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the 
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed 
> by the virus and thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have 
> a life span of 120 days in circulation, so once that is over and they 
> die, then they must be replenished by a steady supply of new cells 
> from the bone marrow.
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I 
> use it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard 
> the reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only 
> combination of drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and 
> had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the reference range being 
> something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and 
> interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
> change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, 
> hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use 
> of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don?t 
> work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained 
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often 
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy 
> about prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted 
> experiment was published where cats where given 10 times the 
> recommended dose of Winstrol as a ?loading dose? and developed liver 
> problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a lot of 
> uneducated vets who will either think you are ?unethical? for asking 
> for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid 
> scientific study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing 
> to prescribe it (like in Sherri?s case) they don?t recognize the need 
> to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost 
> of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing rampantly, so in 
> the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing the need 
> for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a 
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are 
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not 
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, 
> if the progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, 
> white cells and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted 
> to infected cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin 
> will not be effective because it simply encourages those progenitor 
> cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can?t and thus 
> cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
> doesn?t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then 
> the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it 
> effectively in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don?t anything 
> else which fits the bill.
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal 
> walls, or other problems with moving food through the intestines. My 
> cat did, and that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and 
> (c) slow bowel movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ? 
> tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. 
> Worked like a charm.
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain 
> death. I had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is 
> only a short-term solution and he wasn?t producing any red cells 
> (reticulocyte count was basically zero ? this is a measure of new red 
> cell production and should be increased in cases of anemia to 
> demonstrate that the body is producing red cells to compensate for the 
> reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with his last blood 
> transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the next 
> one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his 
> haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped 
> to 10 when I ?discovered? an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.
>
>
> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf 
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 9:15 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning 
> FELV diagnosis
>
>
> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing 
> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to 
> secondary infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol 
> suppress her immune system even further? I'm very confused about how 
> to proceed.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson  > wrote:
>
> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his 
> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the 
> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
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