[Felvtalk] Bogeys Blood Test Today
ROBERT CHAPEL
bchapel at optonline.net
Wed Dec 21 01:11:20 CST 2016
Sherri...
I don't know if it is possible to, perhaps, format the data differently
but I am having a difficult time
reading the Blood results...they are all running together....also....
are the data on the right the older and getting newer as we move to the
left?? A shame this site doesn't ( at least to my knowledge) have a
function for making a table ( or including a table when posting) it
would make matters a LOT easier...
BTW... While I understand your concerns re: Bogey.... on balance...
She's looking pretty darn good for a FeLV Kitty... If my boys blood
values were that good I'd be quite pleased ( apart from the notable
LIver Values)..... Hang in there...
On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:46 PM, felvtalk-request at felineleukemia.org
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Bogey's Blood Test Today These look worse PG 2
> (Sherri Godschalk)
> 2. Re: FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis (Ardy Robertson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 20:25:39 -0500
> From: Sherri Godschalk To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test
> Today These look worse PG 2
> Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well I am not sure he noticed some of the increases on page 2 here. It
> seems
> like all of these are going the wrong direction. She isn?t showing any
> jaundice and her gait is much improved but still having some issues
> with
> balance. I ask them to run the full battery of blood tests today but
> it
> doesn?t look like they did. Do you all agree that these numbers are
> not
> better but in fact worse than when they released her on Dec 14th?
> Scale 20-Dec 14-Dec 12-Dec
> GLU 74-159 122 125 178
> BUN 16-36 21 14 23
> CREA 08-2.4 1.1 0.8 1.3
> BUN/CREA 19 18 18
> PHOS 3.1-7.5 4.5
> CA 7.8-11.3 9.8 TP 5.7-8.9 8.1 7.9 8.7
> ALB 2.2-4.0 3.4 2.9 3.1
> GLOB 2.8-5.1 4.7 5 5.6
> ALB/GLB 0.7 0.6 0.6
> ALT 12-130 581 192 237
> ALKP 14-111 81 42 39
> GGT 0-4 8 TBIL .0-.9 27.2 27.9
> CHOL 65-225 170 AMYL 500-1500 842
> LIPA 100-1400 255
> NA 150-165 158 K 3.5-5.8 3.4 NA/K 46 CL 112-129 114
> OSM CALC 318 Sherri
>
>
> From: Felvtalk on behalf of Randy
> Henke Reply-To: Date: Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 4:54 PM
> To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bogey's Blood Test Today
>
> That is phenomenal, Sherri! I'm hoping for a repeat of that
> performance with
> our girl, Curly.
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Sherri Godschalk wrote:
>> Bogey is still improving. The Dr came out to talk with me himself
>> instead of
>> sending out a tech. Never does that. He said everything looked good
>> except her
>> red blood cells have gotten smaller but there are more of them. As
>> well as him
>> being concerned about infection since her WBC and NEU are elevated. I
>> read
>> that can be from pred and he gave her a shot of it before he sent her
>> home
>> last week when normally I gave her a pill each day. He wants me to
>> start her
>> back on the Doxy and Winstrol but not the pred yet. I still feel like
>> it might
>> be soon on the Winstrol since she hasn't been out of the hospital for
>> even a
>> week yet. I will post the 2nd page of the blood test later if anyone
>> is
>> interested. But LOOK at the Platelet count...go Bogey!
>>
>> Range 20-Dec 12-Dec 26-Oct 30-Sep 16-Sep 24-Aug
>> RBC 6.54 12.2 5.57 4.99 2.54 2.9 2.57 2.43
>> HCT 30.3 52.3 30.9 35.1 14.8 17.9 15.3 15.3
>> HGB 9.8 16.2 10.2 10.4 5.2 6.2 5.5 5.3
>> MCV 35.9 53.1 55.5 70.3 58.3 61.7 59.1 62.6
>> MCH 11.8 17.3 18.3 20.8 20.5 21.4 21.4 21.8
>> MCHC 28.1 35.8 33 29.6 35.1 34.6 36.2 34.9
>> RDW 15 27 23.8 22.2 24.5 25.2 23.7 23.9
>> RETIC 3 50 37.3 27.4 89.9 82.1 78.1 61.5
>> WBC 2.87 17.02 22.34 8.59 13.05 12.01 14.47 13.46
>> NEU 1.48 10.29 15.82 5.42 3.97 3.96 4.07 4.03
>> LYM 0.92 6.88 3.98 2.21 7.8 6.81 8.83 7.75
>> MONO 0.05 0.67 1.89 0.87 1.16 1.17 1.52 1.58
>> EOS 0.17 1.57 0.49 0.08 0.11 0.06 0.004 0.01
>> BASO 0.01 0.26 0.16 0.01 0.01 0.01 0.01 0
>> PLT 151 800 295 122 28 53 88 50
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 0
>>
>>
>>
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> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 21:46:37 -0600
> From: "Ardy Robertson" To: Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning
> FELV diagnosis
> Message-ID: <012c01d25b3c$d67ac0a0$837041e0$@centurytel.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Best of luck to you with Curly ---- just wanted to mention there are
> appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used
> with Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a
> pill every 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can?t remember the
> name of it.
>
>
> Ardy
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them.
> So far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers
> (about a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7
> pounds. About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick.
> She still gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and
> she is still grooming herself. She wants very little social
> interaction which is not like her at all and she has very little
> energy, preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her
> breathing is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.
>
> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail.
> We'll owe you much if it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley > wrote:
>
> Randy
>
>
> I really don?t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is
> the only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org ] On
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline.
> I've read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of
> Winstrol as opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the
> pills but would be willing to give her the shot would it still work as
> well?
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley > wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org ] On
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on
> Monday.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley > wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org ] On
> Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW:
> Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much!
> Do you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound
> cat? I want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on
> Monday.
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley > wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is
> a corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed
> by the virus and thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have
> a life span of 120 days in circulation, so once that is over and they
> die, then they must be replenished by a steady supply of new cells
> from the bone marrow.
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I
> use it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard
> the reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only
> combination of drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and
> had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the reference range being
> something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and
> interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no
> change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit,
> hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use
> of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don?t
> work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy
> about prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted
> experiment was published where cats where given 10 times the
> recommended dose of Winstrol as a ?loading dose? and developed liver
> problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a lot of
> uneducated vets who will either think you are ?unethical? for asking
> for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid
> scientific study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing
> to prescribe it (like in Sherri?s case) they don?t recognize the need
> to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost
> of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing rampantly, so in
> the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing the need
> for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus,
> if the progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells,
> white cells and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted
> to infected cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin
> will not be effective because it simply encourages those progenitor
> cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can?t and thus
> cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat
> doesn?t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then
> the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it
> effectively in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don?t anything
> else which fits the bill.
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal
> walls, or other problems with moving food through the intestines. My
> cat did, and that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and
> (c) slow bowel movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ?
> tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day.
> Worked like a charm.
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain
> death. I had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is
> only a short-term solution and he wasn?t producing any red cells
> (reticulocyte count was basically zero ? this is a measure of new red
> cell production and should be increased in cases of anemia to
> demonstrate that the body is producing red cells to compensate for the
> reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with his last blood
> transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the next
> one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his
> haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped
> to 10 when I ?discovered? an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.
>
>
> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>
>
> Amani
>
>
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces at felineleukemia.org] On Behalf
> Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 9:15 AM
> To: felvtalk at felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Questioning
> FELV diagnosis
>
>
> It's interesting that our vet was very hesitant about even prescribing
> Prednisone because he is afraid it will suppress her immunity to
> secondary infections. I know that is a risk. Would adding Winstrol
> suppress her immune system even further? I'm very confused about how
> to proceed.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 PM, Ardy Robertson > wrote:
>
> If I can chime in on Winstrol, it did wonders on my Tigger to get his
> bloodwork up. I only wish I had started it sooner, along with the
> prednisolone and doxycycline.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
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